Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 2:21:44 to 2:27:41
Technical discussion on how solar and wind power will be firmed using batteries, gas, and pumped hydro to support heavy industrial operations.
Topics: Energy storage, Fossil fuels, Manufacturing
Speakers: Hon Tim Ayres, Malcolm Roberts, Speaker 13, Varun Ghosh, Unknown Speaker
senator senators can I can I just interpose there for a moment. Um >> Minister if you want to conclude your answer and then I'll come back to Senator Roberts. Senator Roberts I I appreciate you might not like the answer but if you could refrain from interrupting at least while it's going on and then we'll come back to you.
the the the um the contracting for electricity officials can go through that will will be from multiple generation sources. It will be the lowest cost firmed capability for Australia. >> that don't interrupt me please >> don't interrupt me please. >> We we we have the world's best wind and solar resources. They can't. >> Please don't interrupt me. Please don't interrupt me. We have the world's best wind and solar resources backed by gas, backed by storage. Uh that is a firm capability. Uh now uh Riointo and the other owners of these facilities are very clear about what it is that they require. Absent delivering that, they will make their aluminium somewhere else. Senator, and if you followed your plan and the plan of Mr. Newman, I mean, talk about hotel bills, Senator Henderson, talking about Mr. Newman's hotel bills. Um, the the these jobs would go overseas. It is only practical action now that is delivering a real future not a pretend future for those 6,000 jobs. Uh and that is that is the way that this government will approach it practically in cooperation with the states and territories uh working with the firms that actually have responsibility for running these facilities. not a not a magical mystery tour through what it is that uh uh uncredible uh say is the future of the electricity network like because we've got a responsibility to discharge on behalf of the country and on behalf of the Hunter community and the workers and families that they support.
>> Right. You also mentioned gas as part of your answer vaguely. The global manufacturing capacity for large-scale gas turbines is controlled by just three companies. GE Venova, Seaman's Energy, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Those companies have their order books closed. They're full and have deliveries scheduled out to 2033. Whatever large scale gas turbines we have on order now is all we are going to get for 7 to 10 years. So I note that Snowy's Curry Curry gas plant did get their generators in time from Mitsubishi. That gives you 650 to 725 megawatt of power for 10 hours a day. Just 10 hours. Except for one thing, the gas pipeline supplying the plant can only supply 70 terles of gas when full long enough for 10 hours of generation. Except it takes longer than 24 hours to replenish, to refill. the the pipeline is basically the storage demanding on demanding on demand from other users in the Newcastle gas bridge. So the people in Newcastle might find a shortage of gas. So let's just set that aside. Tomago needs 950 megawatt every megawatt hour every hour 24/7 24/7 or in other words 22,800 megawatt per hour megawatt hours daily. This gives this gas gives you 7,000. Where are you getting the rest of the firmed electricity from formica? So you've you haven't there's no firm power for solar and wind. There's gas giving you 7,000. Where's the rest coming from?
>> So there'll be a a process that this is still, you know, under negotiation with with Rio. There'll be a process where we transition to a fully renewable powered um uh tomago that will involve firming from batteries, gas and pumped hydro. So the the exact detail of those time frames um and the composition will be you know subject to commercial negotiations but that's that's the plan at a high level. You'd look at firming through batteries, gas, and hydro. And Snowy, of course, has Snowy 2.0, but it also has the ability to offer cap contracts into the markets under existing pumped hydro program.
>> Thank you, Mr. Brian. Um, you said battery and a process. Al Energy is building the AGL Tomago battery right next door to the smelter offering 2,000 megawatt hours a day. Provided it can source the weather dependent power, solar and wind to replenish the battery. You are still well short well short of their needs. Even if the sun and wind cooperate, where is the rest coming
from? Well, there'll be a portfolio of assets drawn. I think the prime minister's talked about 3 gawatt of assets. I expect the majority of those would be in New South Wales. So we see a number of wind projects coming through in the um um uh central west arana res and the southwest res. No no doubt they'll play a part. Uh so those those would be where the where the power's coming from. >> Okay. >> I just draw your attention also to the bo smelter in Queensland. Uh like Rio were able to move to you know a renewable power that uh site by themselves. Also, what we're trying to do here is is replicate in New South Wales what's being delivered in Queensland by by Rio by itself.