Speakers: Hon Tim Ayres, Malcolm Roberts, Varun Ghosh

Transcript

Varun Ghosh

>> All right. Um in the absence of further questions in the corporate matters and general question section uh we will now proceed from that section. Uh while I appreciate many of the officials will remain for other sections uh in relation to corporate we thank you for your attendance and your answers. Uh we now move to outcome one uh which is maintain a secure reliable and affordable energy system. Support the transition of Australia's economy to net zero emissions by 2050. support actions to promote adaptation and strengthen resilience of Australia's economy, society and environment and take a leadership role internationally in responding to climate change. Program 1.1 is support reliable, secure and affordable energy and program 1.2 is reduce Australia's greenhouse gas While we have relevant officials coming to the table, uh I'll just look around the room. Um Senator Roberts, did you have questions on this?

Malcolm Roberts

>> Yes, I do. Outcome one. >> My questions are about the Tomago smelter power purchase agreement which includes power from Snowy Hydro 2. The latest review of Snowy Hydro 2 shows it will not be ready when the new electricity supply agreement for Tomago starts on the 1st of July 2029. The agreement includes a three-year transition which allows Tomago to access power from wherever they can find it subsidized by the government. The question now becomes where will they Is anyone prepared to guarantee the market will have enough firmed power to keep the smelter, the 1,000 mostly union jobs and the 5,000 indirect jobs alive in 2029? Anyone willing to guarantee

Hon Tim Ayres

Well, um, Senator Roberts, uh, the, um, question of the Snowy, uh, 2.0 arrangement and the Tomago deal are entirely separate questions. If, um, Mr. Bryan or his colleagues want to go to, um, any, uh, detail on these questions, they they, um, they will. Um it's um obviously as you indicate uh an important uh intervention one of uh the Commonwealth's uh interventions here to deliver and protect Australian industrial capability and Hunter as you say a thousand direct jobs 5,000 uh jobs that are utterly you know completely related to that facility like they it is important for the hunter economy. It's important for Australian industrial capability. We have um we are one of the few countries on earth that has an end toend aluminium supply chain from borite through to aluminum and aluminium through to finished products and advanced manufacturing products including defense products that engage uh aluminium. Uh it has been very clear from the operators of that facility uh for some years now uh that uh they needed new clean lowcost renewable energy. Uh uh they were unable to secure that um from uh the market themselves. or gas as a gas as a base load rather than gas as a kind of firming uh agent in the electricity mix for them um are far too expensive and are in fact the cause of their uncompetitiveness. This is a good strong capable facility. It's our youngest and largest aluminium Uh but what was driving their lack of competitiveness was a reliance upon aging coal infrastructure. uh and that they were very very clear privately, officially, informally, publicly in every way that they could be uh that what they required was uh new clean energy capability. uh and we have uh worked with them and the government in New South Wales to deliver an outcome here that means more generation will be built, more transmission will be built that will deliver lower costs for the people of New South Wales and participants in the national electricity market. Uh and it will deliver the security of that facility into the future. It's just essentially in principle the same as the intervention uh in central Queensland with the boy island smelter. Um another really important part of Australia's industrial capability.

Malcolm Roberts

>> Minister, renewables, solar and wind cannot be firmed. I asked about firm power. The central west pumped hydro project near Ba'athist has been cancelled. Last week the massive Alinta oven pi mountain pumped hydro project was cancelled. These together total 1225 megawatts of firming. So let me ask again without pumped hydro how will you firm the weather dependent power that you claim will be available to go from 2029. So far, this government has got no policy basis, no options being evaluated, no costbenefit analysis, no business case, no plan, no schedule. We're just going to drive off a cliff blindfolded. >> Well, where will you get your firm power to save these jobs at Tomico that you

Hon Tim Ayres

have put into jeopardy? Well, well, Senator, um far from putting those jobs into jeopardy, the Albanesei government has delivered uh a future for for those jobs and investment in the Hunter Valley for more than a decade from this year. for more than a decade. That is investment as far as the eye can see. >> Firmed power in in terms of the electricity mix that is provided. It is firmed power. Now, now it may be that you are the expert and that the owners of the Tomago aluminium smelter don't know what they're doing, right? It could be this this is a theoretically possible position. These jobs are real jobs under real threat that you know that you know all about it, >> right? And that and that all of the people in the army of engineers let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish that that all of those people in in the firms that run this in the electricity firms in the trade unions that represent them in the business organizations in the Hunter Valley maybe they know nothing and you know everything that is theoretically possible global manufacturing capacity >> don't don't interrupt me >> oh I thought you finished >> no I have not finished this this is a serious deal >> it certainly >> put together put together by actual adults interested in the future of our industrial capability. But I'm asking where's the power and it's a practical it it is and >> where's the power come from you and the solar and wind cannot be firmed