Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 5:30:52 to 5:40:03
Examination of Australia's climate policy ambition ahead of COP31, the approval process for new fossil fuel projects, and concerns raised by Pacific Island nations.
Topics: COP31, Fossil fuels, Pacific relations
Speakers: Hon Tim Ayres, Steph Hodgins-May, Ms Kushla Munro, Andrew Hutchinson, Unknown Speaker, Mr Andrew Hutchinson, Speaker 26
>> Thank you, Chair. Uh I wondered if we may now return to that question I was asking about diesel. Yes. Are you
with Treasury. I I must apologize. You mentioned Treasury in the previous um last time we were here in Senates and you put that question to on notice. We didn't um think that was the main line of inquiry. We thought your original question was just what are you seeing or projecting in terms of your diesel use over time and so we answered on that basis. I've reviewed it in the break. Apologies. We did not pick up on the issue that I now am clear that you're asking about which is there is apparently um from from you an inconsistency in what our numbers are saying verse Treasury. We've spoken with Treasury. We're in the process of working through that. We'll come back to you on notice with a clear answer on
>> Okay.
They're both quite complex projections uh systems and they're measuring different things in different ways and so we want to give you the best answer we can and I don't think I can do that justice now on the basis of an hour of work. So we we'll do it on notice.
>> Okay. I've got quite a number of follow-up questions from that. So um see if any of them are relevant until without in the absence of that clarity.
>> I do know Senator Treasury is on later this week. We'll endeavor to do the best we can to provide you additional clarity in that session if that helps.
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Um I might ask some questions about COP 31 that requires a personnel change.
Just give the officials a moment to
Um, Minister Bowen has said COP the COP 31 presidency um and an opportunity to lead on significant clim was a significant opportunity to lead on climate action. But since announcing your 2035 targets over a year ago, only um one meaningful policy um solar for industrial rooftops has been announced. Um all indications are that COP 31 could not only lack ambition, it could take the world backwards on climate action. Um what is the government doing to reverse this?
>> So Senator um I mean So COP 31 and Australia's role there is obviously um you know as as you said presidency of the negotiation. So we have a very particular role in terms of there are over 100 items uh 60 mandates that need to be negotiated under the UNFC. Uh again that if I'm just trying to explain what that role is and then I'll come to your question. Um but the the but there is a number of uh reviews underway in terms of mitigation uh the just transition goals the agricultural work programs and how you scale up mitigation ambition and implementation and so there is uh the role that you take on in terms of how you uh progress these things uh under the the UNF C and the Paris agreement and of course you know what a country is responsible for as part of its own nationally determined contribution and the the policies that that come forward. So I think to be fair uh the the context um that Minister Bowen was was talking about was absolutely in the context of what's happening in the negotiations and more generally what's happening globally. Very happy to go into details about
>> Can can you share what announcements Australia plans to make at COP 31?
I should well I think that um the answer to that question um stay tuned for when uh the minister does that. Um but I think you indicated earlier that there was one thing that the government had announced um that has been announced since since the 2035 target. At the same time as the 2035 target was announced, $5 billion, the net zero fund and the National Reconstruction Fund to help industrial facilities decarbonize and scale up more renewables. $2 billion for the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to continue to drive investment in the electricity system. $1.1 billion to encourage more production of clean fuels here in Australia, $40 million to accelerate the role of curbside, the roll out of curbside and fast EV charging. I mean, the list sort of goes on. There's a very substantial set of announcements that the government made at the time of the 2035 target.
>> Is that still the net zero fund that no money has been spent out of?
>> Yeah. All of these all of these things take time. All of these things take time.
>> Clock is ticking. While I've got you, Minister, can I um ask austral Australia is a signatory to the transition away from fossil fuels treaty signed in Balum. Can you explain how many new and expanded coal and gas projects this government has approved since signing that agreement?
>> I don't have those uh figures uh in front of me, uh Senator, and I'm not sure. I think that's probably um Senator Chisum will be delighted to engage with you about those questions in resources estimates engage with him as
well
>> or or or environment you know there's a it's not um >> there may be an official who's able to answer that question I mean it is um it is uh that the framework that we're um does permit uh uh countries that have um energy resources to export them. Uh and countries are responsible for the emissions that they emit uh within their jurisdictions. That's the way that the framework works. If it worked if it if there was an effort to make it work any other way, it would fall apart and the world would go backwards in emissions terms. That's the truth of it. Um uh and you know it's one thing uh to assert these kind of propositions, it's another thing to deliver on them. Our job is to deliver on them.
>> Yeah. Look um that question was relating to since the 5th of December how many um new fossil fuel projects have been approved.
>> If we can come back to you, we will but it's not something that I think this um it's not primarily this department. Do
you expect that the government will approve the HBO expansion and browse project before COP 31 is finished?
>> I think all of those um approval processes are um a function of uh ministers exercising their role according to the law and on the basis of the submissions and material and facts that are provided to them and ministers will discharge their obligations. uh carefully uh and in the national interest and in accordance with the law and I mean I I don't think that minister what in environment would be able to say much more than that he is the responsible minister uh but that's the way um that this operates not a kind of um ministers like just freelancing on these questions there is a responsibility a legal process
>> I'm aware of that but I'm just seeing if you provide any information to some very concerned communities and climate groups about that as well as the Pacific Island leaders and I'm curious at the recent
>> pre-con but if I did that if if if if I
or Minister W or anybody on behalf of environmental charge these
responsibilities
>> do I think the right for me to ask questions then it would continue to do that
>> it would open up court processes it would open up uh vulnerabilities it would it would undermine the integrity of the system >> I would say there would be there would be more problems not less As a result of that kind of approach,
>> at the recent pre-COP events in Fiji and Tu Tuvalu, did Pacific countries raise concern with Australian delegates about recent and upcoming fossil fuel
>> So I can answer that, Senator. So there always are, you know, very honest and real conversations that happen uh with Pacific island countries. And so I won't go into the the details, but uh yeah, we do have frank conversations with the Pacific on these matters
>> and during which they expressed you don't have to give me specifics of which country said what, but did they express concerns about upcoming decisions on fossil fuel projects in Australia by the Australian government?
>> I think uh it's on the public record uh ministers from uh Banawatu and others actually making those comments.