Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 5:53:22 to 6:03:42
The committee reviews the AFP Commissioner's appearance on 'Insiders' regarding political violence and returns to the scrutiny of Gaza-based journalists' alleged militant affiliations.
Topics: AFP, National security, Israel
Speakers: Senator The Hon Sarah Henderson, Senator Malcolm Roberts, Gavin Fang, Hugh Marks, Unknown Speaker, Senator Varun Ghosh
Uh well you haven't finished a 10 minute block yet. You had five minutes, so I was going to let you finish the one motion block if that suits.
Yeah, then I'll continue later.
You can, yes, but you've got about four minutes now.
Thank you, Chair. Isn't honest yeah, which is great. Uh thank you for appearing today. My question relates to the appearance of Australian Federal Police, Commissioner Barrett on ABC's insiders program on Sunday. Was this the first time that an AFP Commissioner has appeared on your program?
Do you mean the first time an AFP Commissioner has appeared on the ABC or on insiders?
On insiders.
I'm not sure about that, Senator. Um I'd have to check with the programme.
Could you take that on notice, please? And if it if it is not the first time, could you tell us the uh previous uh visits?
Sure.
Thank you. Did the Commissioner asked to appear or did you approach the Commissioner?
Uh have to see what we can provide on that, Senator. I don't have the details of that. Generally, the way the insiders works is that we approach people to come on and speak.
Thank you. When you approach the Commissioner, did you provide a list of questions in advance? And did those contain a reference to one nation cartoons?
I don't know that, Senator, I'd have to take that on notice.
Thank you. The host asked the Commissioner. I don't watch uh TV on much TV at all, come to think of it. Not just the ABC, so I don't know that the uh host at the moment.
So you haven't seen the programme, Senator?
Um not the Commissioner.
Right.
I've seen snippets of it. The host asked the committee. Is that David Spears?
Yes.
The host asked the Commissioner about causes of political violence. One nation cartoons were mentioned obliquely with the words, quote, a cartoon that suggests someone should be hit by a car. End of quote. And the response was also oblique, quote, announcements or things like you described do cause a reaction among amongst the community, end of quote. The commissioner picked her words carefully, and that's not a criticism, and avoided direct criticism of One Nation's cartoons. Has the ABC stated in any editorial in any medium that the Commission has stated One Nation cartoons were causing violence?
Sorry, Senator, can you repeat the last bit of your sentence?
Has the ABC stated in any editorial in across any medium that the Commissioner stated one nation cartoons were causing violence?
I wouldn't believe so, Senator. I mean, I think I watched that interview. I thought it was a really interesting interview, as you said, the Commissioner picked her words very carefully and was uh very specific about what she was endeavouring to say. I thought it was a really balanced and interesting interview that led to some good discussion on the couch afterwards about the issues. Um I don't think there was a particular focus on the on this on a one nation cartoon in a way that um might have indicated something that I'm I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting, I'm afraid.
Well if you watched it, did the Commissioner make a connection, make the link between One Nation cartoons and violence?
Look, I I can't remember exactly what the Commission said entirely, but the but I mean I think you know, if you if you wanted to have a better understanding of what occurred, you need to watch the full interview.
Yeah, I'm I'm concerned about media reports of the interview, which were wrong, and I wondered if you'd joined that club.
Oh, I see. I haven't seen other media reporting uh that I would um that would have picked up on a particular issue that you're suggesting in in my reading.
Could you check for your own benefit within the ABC?
Within the ABC?
Yeah.
Um maybe if you could give me a bit more detail about it, what exactly you're wanting me to check, I'm happy to see what I can do.
You could check to see whether anyone in the ABC has reported in any media that uh there the Commissioner stated there was a link or implied there was a link between one nation cartoons and violence. Sure, we don't think she did, but I want to know if you've reported it, if anyone in the ABC has reported it as such.
Have you seen an article, Senator, which you're suggesting we've you might be able to help me out here by pointing me?
I don't check the ABC every every medium, but I have noted other media have portrayed that.
Right.
So I'd like to make sure the AB that you know what the ABC is doing.
Okay, I'll attempt to check something. There.
Could you let us know what you find?
Sure.
Thank you. Senator Roberts move on to the good time to break.
Perfect. Thank you, Senator Hempson.
Um thank you very much, Chair. I just want to pick up on the concerns I've raised about the ABC hiring journalists who were subsequently found to be uh Hamas operatives. Uh on the 24th of September, the Washington Post reports that rights group says some people it classified as journalists killed in Gaza were militants. So the committee to protect journalists says that 19 Palestinians killed by Israeli fire who it had previously identified as journalists or media workers were actually militants or participants in combat. Are you aware of their committee to protect journalists' um concerns in that regard? Absolutely.
Mr.
Mark. Mr. Marks?
Yes, Senator, I think Mr. Fang was referring to that earlier.
Absolutely, Senator. And in fact, we have updated a number of stories, ABC stories to reflect those updated numbers.
Oh, right. Well, thank you for that helpful additional information. Because you have published a number of stories. And I just had a look. Uh one story is still online. Uh speaking very favourably about one of these journalists who is actually on the list of 17 journalists now identified as Hamas operatives. That that story is still live.
Uh you'd have to let me know about which particular story that is Senator, and we'll have a look at it.
Our journalists in Gaza are writing their iron obituries after Israel brands then terrorists. Posted on the 12th of August 2025. That is still live. And it speaks in quite glowing terms about Mr. Anas El Sharif. And I'll table this document. He is one of the identified documents journalists.
Thanks, Senator.
By the IDF.
But you're not suggesting that person worked for the ABC, Senator.
I'm just saying that you've said you've corrected a number of your publications. This particular publication is still speaking about this Hamas operative in very glowing terms.
Happy to have a look at that and and see if that's incorrect, we'll fix it.
So how thorough was your review of your of Your work if I can find within minutes an article praising this person, Mr. Al Sharif, who identified as a Hamas operative.
Well, look, I think what what the you know what has happened, what the news teams have done is to look through the variety of stories that are referred to the committee for the protection of journalists and those numbers, and they may you are suggesting have missed one. I'd want to have a look at that story, and we'll see if we we need to um update it.
Can you provide on notice the number of publications that you've removed or amended? Or do you have a few years? Absolutely. And that would be how many.
Oh, I absolutely can, and those would be um mentioned uh on, I would imagine uh on our web page where we note corrections and clarifications if it was a correction. So I'd have to have a look at that, but I can certainly see what we can provide.
So how many uh articles have you removed or amended after discovering that they concerned Hamas fighters?
I'll get you an exact number.
Do you know what they are the number?
I don't know what the number of articles is, no.
So when I when I raised questions with you earlier, you said that you had not taken from what I can recall uh not taken any particular action because you've been you had not received any evidence in relation to the fact that the journalist who worked for you was a Hamas terrorist? Marks, if I can just finish. And I did quote I did quote the um the rights group, the committee to protect journalists. They've now identified 19 Palestinians killed by Israeli fire, who said they were journalists, were in fact Hamas operatives. And this is in a context where there's been widespread condemnation of Israel targeting journalists. As we now know, uh there's a very long list of so-called journalists who've turned out to be uh Hamas operatives. Um in terms of the work that was completed by the journalist who worked for the ABC. What action have you taken to remove that work? And can you describe the nature of the work?
Sorry, Senator, could you repeat that last part of the question?
In relation to the journalists working for the ABC, what action have you taken to remove that person's work?
I think Senator, that person still exists as I understand it from Mr. Fang on the list of journalists that were killed in Gaza. Um we have responded, I think as Mr. Fang earlier said, by seeking to do our own inquiries of the IDF as to whether that person is a person of concern from the IDF perspective or not. We have not received a response to this date. So at this point, that journalist, I think, based on the evidence we currently have remains someone that was tragically killed in Gaza. So the fact that it's been listed in other sources as as being um a Hamas operative, as you suggest. Um that is one perspective. I think we are basing our work on the international body's work and uh direct questions to the IDF, which is I think the appropriate steps to take.