Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 5:38:39 to 5:44:54
Questioning regarding the abolition of the Head of Indigenous TV role, the consultation process with First Nations staff, and recent redundancy figures within the ABC.
Topics: First Nations, Public service staffing, Workplace culture
Speakers: Hugh Marks, Senator Lidia Thorpe, Ms Deena Amorelli
Senator, we were endeavouring to elevate the position uh of First Nations content within the organization to a direct report to myself. Um at the moment, that role um, I guess we have a First Nations strategy role. I'd like that First Nations strategy role to move on to be a general content role in the organisation, and as I said, to be present at the senior most senior levels of the organisation. It is a really important category of storytelling that the ABC needs to do a substantial body of work on. We take that responsibility very seriously. So I think we're now in a consultation process with uh our First Nations staff about um how best to set that up for the future, and I suspect um you know the person that occupies that role going forward who will then be able to ensure that whatever we do is amplified and extended, not only in screen but across our audio and news divisions as well. What what I want to do is when we do something, I want to do it really well and get more out of it. So elevating that role, I guess was my was my hope. Um the changes that we proposed did not land well with the staff. We've paused them and we're now going through a broader consultation period process. I'm sitting in those meetings myself. I sat in them uh with about 12 uh First Nations staff the other day. It was a really productive discussion. Um And I expect we'll end up with a commissioner who will operate at the most senior level of the organisation.
Thank you. So I understand there was a change document that was produced in relation to some of these decisions. Are you able to put that on the process?
That's what I was just discussing, Senator. Yeah, there was a proposal for a change proposal which was to make the First Nations division of the ABC all platform or all genre division, rather than it having it siloed in each of the individual, you know, news, audio and screen divisions. I don't think we communicated the proposal well. It certainly didn't land with staff. It caused a lot of angst. That's why we paused the proposal, and as I said, I'm participating in a broader discussion with our First Nations staff. It's quite complex to get to a landing on what is the right structure for us to be able to tell those stories as well as we possibly can going forward, but all we've got a broad cross-section of First Nation staff involved in that process. I think they all feel well heard. So I'm sure we'll come out with a really positive outcome by the end of that. It might take a few months, but we'll get there. If your question is, are these stories important to be told? They are. They're important that the ABC tells them. It's an important part of the statement that I made earlier today. It's actually an important thing for me personally to make sure that we do that in the best possible way. But I want those programs to be great reflections of the contribution that First Nations culture makes to our broader culture. So I think we're on the right path, but we've got some work to do to get there.
Thank you. Yet the removal of the head of Indigenous TV role was never publicly announced or explained. And only limited staff within the ABC knew of it. Why didn't you tell the public that the ABC was removing a long-standing long-standing dedicated indigenous leadership position?
I'm not sure that it was a secret decision. Ms. Amorelli might have something to add about this. Obviously, we were respectful of that person and not wanting to make it look like necessarily it was something to do with his performance. So we were certainly respectful and not looking to make a lot of noise about it, but I don't think it was a secret decision at any stage, and it did go to wide consultation.
It wasn't intended at all to be something of a decision made in secret or not communicated more widely, if that's how it's landed, it wasn't intended that way. Subsequent to that, the change proposal that's been discussed was communicated, and we make decisions about that, which Mr. Marks has just described.
Thank you. So why was the head of Indigenous TV position abolished before meaningful consultation with First Nations staff had taken place? And will you reinstate that position if that's what your First Nations staff want?
Well, I think yes, we'll go through that consultation process. And obviously, as I said at the beginning of this discussion, I want that to sit at the senior, most senior levels of the organisation. So I would imagine that the head of First Nations inside the ABC will have content responsibilities going forward and will have authority to make you know more decisions about the sorts of content that we do. In the scripted area particular, we are recruiting for an executive who is capable of ensuring I guess uh appropriate cultural implementation of any stories that we're doing in addition to being actively involved in the First Nations uh programs that we do. There are a number of First Nations programs that we are in production on at the moment. Um so ensuring that we've got the most senior level of script executive, you know. We do have a uh First Nations consultant, um, but we need to make sure that we have uh executive and response responsible for creatively for those shows as well. So it's something we're looking to recruit for.
Thank you. So the government hasn't cut any ABC funding. Um yet you've been running redundancies. How many positions have been made redundant since you became managing director? Is that figure more than 100?