Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:37:29 to 2:47:23
Senators request greater transparency regarding contract milestones and correspondence with Amazon. NBN Co also provides cost updates and delivery timelines for fiber upgrades in apartment buildings and HFC network improvements.
Topics: Infrastructure, Procurement
Speakers: Senator Sarah Henderson, Speaker 10, Gavin Williams, Speaker 1, Unknown Speaker, Interjection
>> Of what the projections are. What has Amazon told you about when you will be able to ensure that if an a Australian sign up no matter where they live in this large continent? Yes. >> They will be able to access the satellite service offered by NBN. When will that date be?
>> Well, Senator, I can't give you the date. It's reliant on as you know Mr. Williams has already mentioned on the launch schedules. So, we are working through with Amazon. We don't control the launch schedules um of Amazon's you know global rocket launches or the constellations but what we are doing is working very closely with them. We have Amazon in Australia this week working with our team uh and again looking to make sure that when we do go live and I think this is incredibly important as the statutory infrastructure provider the customers who are on that geostationary solution have a great transition onto that LEO solution.
But what are they transitioning on to and when will that happen?
>> Well, they're transitioning on to the product that we have consulted with industry that we're building. >> Um, so that's
>> but you can't tell us when that will be made available to all Australians.
>> Well, when when it'll be made available be a function of um Amazon getting uh sufficient satellites and there's there is um you know it is a big job to be done in launching those rockets. There is no question center.
>> I don't disagree with you at all. Um, >> I'm just raising concerns
>> and I think it's a great thing that there's competition in regional and remote communications which over decades there hasn't been. So, you know, we're in a uh a decade ago we used to talk about the data drought. People don't talk about the data drought anymore. What we're about here is um across regional communications pushing fiber deeper as um Miss Sweeney said in her opening conference [laughter] such that we now have um uh the the circa 3.7 million homes and businesses in regional Australia about 2.7 million of those um will be um uh upgradable to fiber. In fact, 90% of those now we've got an upgraded uh fixed wireless network which includes speeds of up to um uh north getting up to 500 megabits per second on our over overprovisioned 400 megabit per second plan and here for the
>> as a result of the lot of work and investment by the former coalition
government. Um and it's I use the service almost every day and I it's a marvelous it's a marvelous service and for the the last 300 um uh the job to be done for the last 300 is to embrace the technology that wasn't available uh when we launched Sky Master Services
>> of course [clears throat]
and work with um a a pioneering partner such as Amazon um to uh utilize their global constellation. And we're looking and we will not launch until we have the product that we've defined with industry um operating with a a great greater service for our customers and and frankly you know we we um the timing imperative we we have um uh we we have fuel in our Sky Master satellites um beyond the time that we think that we'll
>> but you just need the rockets and you need the rocket to get the satellite into the sky
>> for our replacement product. We do. Yeah. We look so we'll [laughter] be we'll be we'll be watch we we'll be watching with interest in French Guana at Karu um in November as um uh the Aran SPA 64 launches with the next 36 um satellites and and that will start getting the the the balance of the thousand or so that have already been produced to the constellation of 3200 or so which will be the full the full complement of that.
>> And so do you know how long it will take to get the 3200 satellites into the air?
Well, that's that's a a function that that's Amazon's role and they'll be and I'm sure that they'll be making
>> you must have been given some sort of forecast, Mr. Williams.
>> Um, well, we we work with Amazon consistently, but we and we we take our
is I'm seeking all correspondence between yourselves and Amazon in relation to this service uh since the 1st of July last year please until if we we need to understand what's going on. So take >> so we need to understand if this is being held out to Australians as an alternate service to Starink we need to understand what the projections are and I just find it difficult to comprehend that when you've entered into such a massive contract what is the value of that contract by the way
>> Senator I'd have to come back to you on
>> you don't have a ballpark figure for me
>> no be I wouldn't I wouldn't want to go >> Well, it's in the hundreds of millions.
>> Yeah. Right. Hundreds of millions. How much have you paid so far?
>> Appropriate contractual terms in that contract for delays as well. Sure. Just maybe just one thing if I can. >> You know, this was never, you know, Amazon and the LEO solution is a replacement for Sky Master. That is, you know, the definition of what we're trying to do.
>> No, I understand that.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. I I understand that. So if we could have all correspondence between MBN and Amazon since one July last year relating to this service.
>> I'll take that on notice soon.
>> Uh including including the projections as to when this service will be up and running. Uh the concerns you've raised have you raised concerns about about the
>> Have we raised concerns, Senator? We'd love to get those rockets up as as fast as anybody. So they are well aware of our concerns. uh and that again that uh as a GBE that we are asked these questions in uh in Senate estimates and rightly asked them and again we'll continue to update you um in each Senate estimates in terms of that progress.
>> Well, I'm looking for greater transparency. How much in terms of the total value of that contract? How much have you spent already? How much have you paid to Amazon?
>> Oh, we haven't paid anything to Amazon.
No, not that because they it's all milestone based and they haven't
>> there's milestones around when it goes live. There's without going into you know a huge amount of detail around that contract. Um there are relevant uh protections for MBN
>> and this this goes to part
>> can I can I sorry I'm just going to move
on >> to take our break if you've got further questions and we'll come back in 15 minutes if you want to finish.
>> I can finish up very quickly just
>> very quickly.
>> Yeah on another on another thing quickly. Um, look, MBN still hasn't outlined fiber upgrade plans for all of its apartment customers. Um, fiber to the basement and there's plans to upgrade HFC to a DAA fiber architecture. could you just briefly update me on the cost which I imagine is quite significant given the number of customers this impacts and how will that impact MBN's ability to pay down debt through the 2030s given that particular ma very major project
>> sorry is a question around fiber or HSC Senator again we do give projections as you know which are based on the Ibidar results for the business and the revenue for each year. Uh obviously with a capital envelope that is as large as ours. There are uh again internal um uh integrated operating plan which does look out to 2030 and it looks out to 2040 as well because we have to take into account the investments that we are making. Um in terms of the upgrades uh senator you know I've just already given the number we upgraded more than 575,000 customers last year. Um we
>> I can just ask sorry just because we've got very limited time the plans the fiber upgrade plans for all apartment customers >> and you also have plans to upgrade HFC to to a DIA fiber >> that's right and so when is that being delivered and when's and what will that cost be
>> well it's all been factored into you know our internal budgets uh and we are continuing to bring down the cost of those fiber upgrades which is positive and then similarly uh from an HFC perspective uh we are upgrading that network um we have more than two million Australians on that network uh Dion can give you an update in terms of DAA um but again that has been you know it's working very well we've got a great penetration rate on that network more than you know 78% of customers on that network high speed tiers highpoo as well but again we're conscious it is a complicated network and we are making those investments and DA DA is one of those.
>> All right. Well, look, I'm going to ask you to provide the details of that on notice
>> on DA.
>> Uh, and on the um the apartment, the FTTB upgrades, if if you could, but I'll I'll follow up on notice. If you can
please provide
>> of those upgrade plans on notice, including the cost. >> Thank you. Thanks, Chair.
>> Thank you, Senator Hanson. Um, well, on that note, then we're about to go to our um evening tea break 15 minutes. Uh before I do that, I will excuse the officers from the National Broadband Network. Thank you very much for your assistance here today. Um I'm also in a position to release officials relating uh to outcome seven, so from the Department of Infrastructure Transport and that's sport and the Australian Sports Commission, Australian Institute of Sport. I thank my colleague colleagues for their cooperation in that respect. Uh and we will be back on at 9:35 with Australia Post. Thank you very
>> Thank you, chair. Thank you, committee.