Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 8:57:35 to 9:05:48
Senator O'Sullivan questions discrepancies in domestic student enrollment figures and whether ministerial statements accurately reflected undergraduate commencements.
Topics: Education, Integrity
Speakers: Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Jess Walsh, Dr Fleur Champion De Crespigny, Mr. Tony Cook, Unknown Speaker, Interjection, Senator Marielle Smith, Speaker 33
So, I've t a number of documents there. Probably the most useful one to look at is this this graph which is extract from your website. uh I want to take a few of the columns. So the first column has got the domestic uh students. Uh you can see in 2021 it's 971 638 and then you scan down to 2026 it's 94211. Is that is that correct? And does that is that accurate?
>> So thank you Senator. Um the preliminary uh data release is a new release and um very helpful to provide the Excel um extract. Um the PowerBI has obviously got a lot of data in it. Dr. Dretney, I
>> Okay. >> Yeah.
Just to just to clarify that the the minister's uh press release was referring to
>> which is the fourth column. >> Yep. On that spreadsheet just commencing
students um and uh the word that was missed in his statement um was undergraduate. So he was referring to under undergraduate level studies. So the numbers that you provided um again encompass the different levels of study. But if you were to look at the um the PowerBI dashboard that we have um linked within that that web page and filter it to uh to undergraduate students, you would find >> the numbers that I was referring to
So if I go to that fourth column, I can see domestic commencing students.
>> That's right. >> That's right.
>> Which is all >> 3 314. So that um 314231 and then the last the last figure on for 2026 is 31741. When you say that's for all so that's for all commencements which is not just higher ed um undergraduate
>> that's right there's more than there's more than just undergraduates in that number that's right >> that includes sorry
>> so where if I go to the media center um the statement media statement more Australians starting uni in 2026 uh top line can you see this one >> Mhm. We're all looking at the same top line. More Australians started a university degree than ever before. Where does it say? Have I missed something here? Where does it say undergraduates?
>> So that's where that's where minister did clarify that in the other article you've got for us here >> which is the update which said Mr. Clear's office has clarified his comments related to predictions of growth in domestic undergraduate That's on page the future campus article which given
uh should the minister correct the record in the house? So he said it in the house.
>> So that's an opinion you're asking us. That's really a matter for the minister. The minister has clarified it in the
usual practice.
>> Well again that's not for me to say minister on
Uh thank you Senator. Um I'm still trying to find the um pieces of information that um you are talking about but um the secretary is assisting me. So um I understand that the minister has of clarified the data in this future campus. Uh what is this an online sort of
>> online
>> online newsletter or journal? Um and um I you know I was listening to the officials carefully earlier. Um, Senator, when you asked them, uh, asked the officials whether the minister had, you know, misled the house, um, and they, you know, um, explained the data, uh, and, um, how the data, um, reflects, you know, projections to fullear values and reflects, um, undergraduate, uh, commencements. uh and um on that basis um I see um that there's no issue um with >> well there is an issue she's made sort of clarifying it in relation >> um to the house which was what your question was
>> so the the the the concern I've got is that an error was made a mistake has been made we are all capable of mistakes I make them all the time just Ask my staff and ask my wife, right? >> All right. Ask anyone sitting at this minister, you got a responsibility to to correct the record if you particularly if you've made a statement to the house. what is what? I It's pretty simple, isn't it? Just go back in there saying on this date I said this, made a mistake. I should have said this. I >> I'm sure I've heard you do it before after question time where you've given a incorrect answer like why can't it just be what's what's the big deal?
>> Well, I think I could put the question back to you. What's the what's the big deal?
>> Misled the house. Are you are you actually saying
>> our estimates were senator Senator?
>> Look, I don't mind the exchange.
>> The minister understands we're we're not we're not doing that.
>> I don't mind the exchange.
>> You may not mind it, but that's just not the way estimates. So, let's get back into the question and answer theme for the evening.
>> you're not surely with that response, Minister, you're not suggesting that >> that under the Westminster conventions that that it doesn't those Westminster conventions don't apply here for Mr. >> Cole. It was pretty basic thing for him to be able to do.
>> I will I've answered the question, but I'll answer it again, which is I think you're sort of bringing a sledgehammer to a peanut here. Um there's been a explanation of the data uh and from what I um understand um well from what I understand uh undergraduate student commencements are up uh and that um the department is not concerned about um a mismatch between uh what the data shows and the statement made.
>> Yeah. Well, he he my point, Minister, is that uh at the time made the point that he made uh for rhetorical reasons, wanting to get make the political point as we all do uh to to to to gain some sort of advantage by by saying what he's said in but the evidence doesn't back up that point. So he should go back and correct it. Now you disagree. I disagree. We can disagree. Um but it's not the only time that the minister uh has made an error like this. Uh I tabled uh this document