Senate Economics Legislation Committee, , 9:07:13 to 9:28:50
ANSTO addresses internal workplace culture, performance management frameworks, and its role in providing nuclear advice to the government.
Topics: Workplace culture, Electricity grid, Public service staffing
Speakers: Shaun Jenkinson, Senator Susan McDonald, Senator Lisa Darmanin, Dr Miles Apperley, Unknown Speaker, Interjection
Thank you. We will get started again. Uh the committee welcomes representatives from the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organization. I welcome Mr. Shaw Jenkinson, Chief Executive Officer. We do have your opening statement here that's been tabled circulated amongst all the senators. So we'd appreciate we can incorporate that in um and go straight to questions if that suits you.
>> Very happy.
>> Thank you very much. We'll go first to Senator McDonald.
>> Thanks Mr. Jenkinson. How many in total of all topics uh has ELA received since you became CEO? And ELA for those watching is the internal complaints platform.
>> So ELA is um internal feedback across as you say all topics. So I wouldn't classify it as complaints. It's a methodology of feedback for the organization. >> Um I don't have that number to hand Senator McDonald. I'd have to take that question on notice. >> All right. which I'm happy to do. So
>> on uh on notice then if you do that for 2020 21 22 23 24 and 26 >> what were the broad categories of ELA complaints in 2025.
>> So um gosh again once again if I maybe just go back and reiterate ELA is a feedback format so it's not necessarily complaints. So the broad categories um provide an opportunity for all staff to provide feedback to uh to me directly or to different people within the organization about any subject that they choose and it may relate to personal circumstances for themselves. It may relate to uh a dispute within their area between themselves and a colleague. It may relate to disagreement with man a manager. It can be a whole range of things. it can be raising something that observed that they're concerned about that may relate to safety. We encourage all our staff to use the ELA system. Um I think it's important also to point out that I think the system works very well for us because what it enables people to do is to provide feedback um in a way that either they can attach their name to it or they can do it in an anonymous format. And even when it's done anonymously because of the platform, we are able to respond to that person without knowing who it is to seek more information, get clarification or get followup. And so it's across a a broad range of topics.
>> Okay. So for 2025 and 2026 on notice, could you tell me how many could be categor categorized as complaints related to safety? >> Sure. >> Including both physical and psychosocial
>> We could certainly find that information
out. >> Thank you. How many of those complaints uh were followed up with a formal investigation?
>> Again, I'd have to take that on notice to be specific about what it is, but we follow every notification up with a response and a number of those will go to a formal investigation internal and
complaints that were followed up with the documented outcome, what was the average time it took to process from the date the complaint was received to the date a finding was approved by the relevant ANSTO executive.
>> Yeah, look again, Senator McDonald, I'm going to have to take that on notice to give you the actual specific response.
>> Thank you. During your tenure as CEO, how many ANSTO employees have been terminated following a firm formal investigation stemming from an ELA
take that on notice. I'm not aware at this stage of any of those, but I'd have to be very specific and look that up.
uh, I guess given that, you know, we've identified that some could be a physical uh, or a psychosocial safety. Um I'm imagine that there would be some if a employee was found to be threatening another employee or making for an unsafe
>> Yeah, I would have to in terms of people who have uh been terminated within the organization, I'd need to understand whether or not they came as you are inquiring from an ELA or from some other avenue. So I'd need to check that to make sure I've got the details correct
for you. Thank you. If ELKA complaints do not lead to investigations into inadequate performance, help us understand how ANSTO's performance management frameworks might correct inadequate employee performance.
>> Okay, so we have um a number of performance management networks within the organization. They're also somewhat enshrined within our enterprise agreement in terms of how we go about addressing performance within the organization. There may be performance improvement plans working with the employee and sometimes we seek to look at additional training for individuals but they would be dependent on each case. So we work through that with our HR business partners with the line manager and with the individuals seeking to improve performance support the individual with additional training or progress them and in some instances move them into alternate roles which may be better suited to their skill set. Ansto
conducts midyear annual performance reviews on every employee. Is that
>> So we have uh an annual performance review for all employees and there is also the requirement for people to do mid-year reviews. I also um drive an expectation that interactions with line managers should be more frequent than that and that people should have regular one-to-one meetings with their line managers so that they establish a set of up performance standards and feedback so that at midyear and fullear reviews
round of reviews. Um, did you conduct a formal performance review on each of your seven group >> How many group executives did not have a midyear review completed on file by the 1st of April? So, this is for the February March period. I would have to
go and look that up, Senator McDonald. It's not information I have to hand.
>> Okay. So, you are not aware of at the top of your head the uh of any executives that didn't receive?
>> Not immediately, but I would need to
>> Has each of the executive present today completed a midyear performance review?
>> Yes.
>> You've only got one of your seven.
>> Yes.
We understand midyear reviews are not mandatory. However, one might expect executives to lead by example. Um, Mr. Jenkinson, are you you you say you're not aware of any uh of your executives's desire or oversight not to complete a midyear
review. So I would probably take a step back and go back to my earlier comment around interactions and more frequent interactions than a review. I have a formal one-to-one interaction with each of my executives every month of which there is a formal review pack which includes all of their objectives from infrequently are those meetings missed because they are prioritized within the organization. So I have a regular one-to-one um meeting and often the summary of the midyear and endear review is a culmination of the conversations at those oneto ones every month that reflect that there are no surprises and that we've discussed all items on a regular basis throughout the
year. Which group executives currently have clearance authority or input of any kind into board reports related to the May 2025 AR panza direction?
>> Can you repeat that question for me please?
>> Which group executives have clearance authority or input of any kind into board reports related to the May 2025 Ranza direction.
>> Okay. So that would be any executive whose remmit was for the facility involved. So my colleague Dr. Apple Lee here and then I would think um one of my colleagues uh Marian Morton who's acting in the uh the role of executive for governance risk and compliance which would obviously cover off interactions
>> and what sort of interest or roles which would either of those gentlemen have in contributing to these board reports. So
um can again just please so I understand what you're asking please repeat that
question for me. I'm seeking to understand of those executives what role what in interest would they have in contributing to that?
>> My colleague at the table with me Miles Appley is the group executive that covers off the waste facilities alongside the Opal reactor as well. And so it's his line management for the facility that was part of the Arpanza direction. And then uh Miss Marianne Morton um her responsibility at the time is acting in the role of uh the executive responsible for our regulatory interaction and so therefore she would have a remmit to put information into a paper based on her interaction with the
If there was a concern over integrity or corruption within Ansto's executive and the CEO, how then does it help for employees to report concerns via Ansto's internal reporting platform? >> if those reporting platforms are vetted by the executive and or the CEO. So
where and in over history we have people who have raised concerns that include the executive or myself then I have move those to an independent investigation so that they're not impacted by the
if the ANSTO board accountable to Ansto's minister holds some level of accountability for safety and risk in a scenario where the ANSTO board is not being given and potentially not being given accurate, correct or full information in written reports, then who will be held accountable for safety
>> So, I'm not aware of any examples where the board have not been informed of information relating to safety. It's a very transparent communication to our board, which is the accountable authority, but ultimately responsibility would sit with me. But if I was named in an ELA then I would uh move responsibility to an independent review.
>> You see my challenge with this sort of circular. Is there a a is there a avenue for employees to make raise issues that is outside of the CEO and the group executive?
>> Absolutely. they could raise any issues with the board as well and the board chair. The board chair is frequently present on site and I organize frequent engagement activities for the board to walk around site and they take the opportunity to do so. So there would be multiple opportunities for them to do
>> Do you accompany the board chair on those tours? dinner break. >> All right. Um, okay. Let me move to another topic. We'll we'll come back to that. Since May 2022, has the minister or the department formally asked Anto for advice on nuclear power in
Not to my recollection.
>> So in four years the government's never formally asked the nuclear agency about
>> Not specifically to my recollection.
>> This year's budget gives ANSTO $10.6 million over two years under the nuclearpowered submarine program. Is
>> Senator Dr. Dr. Milesley Group Executive uh nuclear operations safety and security. That's correct. Yes.
>> In the budget's words that money is to advise on the safe implementation of nuclear technology given that the engine the engines in those submarines are nuclear reactors. I should confirm that. That's correct, isn't it? It's a fair description. So the government pays an to advise on nuclear reactors in submarines. Why then are you prevented from assessing nuclear power in Australia?
>> Um Senator, so actually the uh ANSTO doesn't advise on naval nuclear propulsion uh to our remit is to provide advice on nuclear operations more generally. For example, um the way you might uh conduct an operation, run the uh safety systems in a new facility, [clears throat] uh the engineering requirements, social license, workforce development, those more holistic uh activities around running a nuclear operation is where we
>> Um thank you for that. We've um going to suspend now um for a dinner break and we will be back at uh 10 7 and we will continue with Ansto. Thank you everyone.