Senate Economics Legislation Committee, , 8:19:46 to 9:06:41
The National Reconstruction Fund and Net Zero Economy Authority discuss investment pipelines and regional workforce transitions in Gladstone.
Topics: Emissions reduction, Employment, Regional Investment Corporation
Speakers: Senator Susan McDonald, David Shankey, Senator The Hon Tim Ayres, David Gall, Senator Richard Colbeck, Senator Lisa Darmanin, Simon Draper, Speaker 47, Speaker 48
All right. Um, the committee now welcomes representatives from the National Reconstruction Fund Corporation. Uh, I welcome Mr. David Gaul, chief executive officer of the National Reconstruction Fund Corporation. If you have provided an opening statement, um it has been provided to us and we would appreciate it to help us catch up on time if we table it and go straight to questions. You're nodding yet. Thank you very much. Uh and we will go to Senator Colbeck. >> Oh no. Oh, sorry. Senator McDonald, my
>> Uh thank you for your attendance this afternoon. I wanted to ask you some questions on the uh national reconstruction fund and research and development tax incentive impacts please. Uh what was the total value of refundable offsets paid to companies aged 10 years or older in the most
>> Do do you mean in terms of um firms that the National Reconstruction Fund has taken a position in?
Uh, so if companies that receive, so sorry so in the interest of time I've probably cut some of my leadup questions out, but we I want to know about companies receiving the refundable offset. and and how many of those companies were had been established for 10 years or
>> Um, thanks for the question, Senator David G, CEO of the National Reconstruction Fund. uh we um have within the portfolio uh a number of companies that are receiving um the RDTI. Uh I'm not I don't have a number of companies that are you know what age they are and how many would be more than uh 10 years old. Um but we do have within the portfolio a number receiving
that today. So from the 1st of July 2028, cash refunds will only be available to companies in their first 10 years um or 15 years for eligible biotechnology and medical technology firms. So this is going to be a piece of data that you really need to understand,
uh Senator once uh those changes uh come into uh into being um we will be uh clearly working with our portfolio of companies. We do ongoing assessments of those investments in any event and we will uh be able to then understand uh what the implications are for each of the portfolio companies that we have that are receiving that today.
>> Can I maybe just add on on that? So yes, the firms that I mean they are by and large research intensive firms. So there will be um RDTI uh in there. Um I think it would be hard [sighs] for the fund consistent with the discussion that Senator Hodgins may have with the officials administering the RDTI for the country to provide responses in relation to specific firms.
No, I don't want specific firms, but thank you for pointing that out. What I'm I'm trying to understand is >> um of the of the National Reconstruction Fund partnerships, investments, >> um how many of them are in that age bracket because that will affect the policy that you're moving towards. So,
>> we'll see if we can provide you on
>> Ask you again. Yes. So what was the total value of refundable offsets paid to companies aged 10 years or older in the most recent year? Can
>> can we take that in two parts on notice? One is if if we can provide information about the number of companies and then secondly if we can provide any information about the I'm skeptical about the fund's capacity to be able to tell you about the value which I'm just trying to break it up in a way that might be more useful.
>> I appreciate that. Thank you. Has the department modeled how many companies will cut their research spending or move it offshore because of the time limit?
>> Uh, Senator, at this point in time, that's uh completely un unknown. We we don't know yet whether we have uh companies uh that are affected and how they'll be affected and when they'll be affected by the changes.
>> So, will you not ask for information to inform the budget announcement?
They're not a policy organization, Senator that that they wouldn't be engaged in the kind of budget preparation work.
>> I think the officials who were here earlier were the ones who were answering questions in that regard. I don't think the NRFC could answer those questions.
>> Okay. So, all right. I I guess I So, would the department have had that information? They would know how old the companies were, how many would be affected, whether or not they would
thorough working over on those questions and answered to the extent that they could. Um I mean obviously for the fund the kind of firms that we're engaged in are research intensive because of their very nature but we'll we'll take all that on notice and give you the best information that we can.
>> All right. So when you take that on notice, could you please identify which sectors you think will be um which sectors those are broken into by the ages of the fund because I'm just trying to understand you know research dollars are important those partnerships are important and um and I want to try and understand what the impact of those budgetary changes will be on our important research organizations.
I think the the fund can can give I think they've already taken on notice that those requests the um I think probably best to rely on the evidence was provided earlier on the handsard uh in relation to the more general
>> Okay. Well, more specifically then how many bio biotechnology and medical technology companies currently running phase 3 clinical trials are 15 years or older?
>> Yeah, I think that may have been something along those lines may have been asked earlier, but take it on take
on But but if if it wasn't, we'll we'll see what we can do to help you.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um all right, that is my questions for this section. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh Senator Colbeck.
>> Um I will ask questions with respect to the national >> the net zero fund.
>> Oh yeah, we can do that. Yep. >> No, no, that's a sub fund of the of the
national fund. Yeah. So,
>> yep. Please don't mind me.
>> So, within the National Reconstruction so how many investments has the net zero fund approved since it was announced in 20 September 2025?
So, uh, Senator, uh, we have, uh, had one, uh, approval. We have quite a substantial pipeline. Now, we have had 122 applications to the fund. Not all of those applications qualify. Uh, in terms of that fund, we're working through those. We have a strong pipeline of activities. We expect to have a number of announcements uh coming up in terms of uh that fund. Uh but to your specific question, we've had one approval so far.
approval, but you haven't yet made an investment as such. You've approved one.
Senator, we what we've found is we've worked through these um opportunities and a lot of them are either in industrial decarbonization or they're in low emissions technology. A lot of them are quite complex. There are a number of preconditions that uh our uh customers have had to work through to go through the approval stage and through to a commitment and settlement stage. uh we're working through that um with them and that's why I've got a high level of confidence we'll have a number of announcements on the fund uh coming up but that's currently where we are the the fund you mentioned September last year we mobilized on the fund when it was um uh taken through uh in April uh this year so it it really has been the last six months that we been working through and building up this pipeline
So what was the date of the finalization of that first in investment?
>> Uh that first investment is still to be announced. It's working its way through the finalization of documentation at the moment. So once that's complete,
finished the documentation, so therefore it's not announced yet. So effectively there's not >> there's not an investment out the door yet, which is what was reported earlier this month by the financial review. so you've you've clearly got your investment criteria finalized.
>> Yes, we have. Uh Senator, that's very
How many full-time staff are currently on the program
>> in in the investment team on the program, do you mean? Yeah.
>> Well, in in respect of the net zero
>> Yeah. Yes. So, directly and solely on the net zero fund, we have uh six people and of course a lot in the rest of the fund um supporting supporting them.
>> So can you might have to do this on um which will be fine. How much you have spent established administering consult on consulting and advertising since the program was announced? So effectively since September, how much has been expended on the operations of the
>> we'll take that on notice. Yeah.
>> So, in terms of your measurable it comes down to one project moving through its documentation for announcement stage and 122 applications. that are being assessed and sorted.
>> That's the current pipeline.
>> Yeah. So, there's a pipeline of activity as as I said um Senator, we will have a number of announcements coming up and look, this is certainly what I think the experience of the the broader fund was when it was first established as well. But I'm confident that uh that we will have quality um applications being moved through approval through commitment and
>> So the 122 applications is that effectively the inquiries that you've
had. Uh yes, Senator that they were inquiries. Not all of those then translated into qualifiable because of the criteria, because of what they
>> So what proportion would translate of that 122?
>> So of those 122, there are approximately a dozen of those that are being actively taken through and we expect to come ultimately through to completion, but they're being actively worked on right
So the the purpose of the fund is to support heavy industry to decarbonize. what are you doing for those that say where it's not possible? How do how do they fit into it? So I mean cement as an example um big plant not far from where I am. 65% of the production of cement is a chemical reaction when it's goes through the kiln. How how how are you managing those industries and supporting those with the pressures that are coming on through the demands of the net zero
>> Um Senator the sort of thematics and I might get our CIO Dr. Mary Manning to elaborate a bit further on this, but some of the thematics coming through um the net zero fund that we're seeing at the moment range from uh uh hydrogen uh to lowcarbon uh liquid fuels um to heat storage. There's a number of sort of thematics that we're seeing that are going to help big and big medium and big uh industrial companies uh decarbonize
it. You can't decarbonize a chemical production of a particular product.
>> I think your question is a fair enough question. I think the answer really is if you look at the way that uh you know what are the hardest to abate sectors and and
>> I've picked one of the best
>> the firm that you've identified you know I know I know that firm uh the the abatement opportunities are tougher so the business model and the comm you know so that is um uh the the areas that the fund is focused on are areas like um thermal energy storage where you know you you have got opportunities to um harness low cost solen the middle of the day and deploy it for heat purposes in firms and lower their costs basically. Um so they are um in the you know not that that the fund is not starting at the toughest end of the process. They're working with firms where there are where there are opportunities to lower their costs and there is a commercial model that the fund can catalyze by dragging in uh investment and dragging in the best technology to support uh industrial uh stuff and um you know cement like is a hard that is a hard set of questions and it will go to a range of other technologies some of which are still in
So this fund is not something that would be targeted at that sort of
>> So um Senator if uh we had a opportunity that was presented to us for in your example uh a form of lowcarbon um cement different cement manufacturing methodology use or using different materials. we could consider that as as an investment in the in the fund. At this stage, we haven't been presented with that uh type of opportunity, but we have been presented with a lot of other opportunities for small, medium, and large firms uh to decarbonize.
>> Okay. So, so fundamentally after 12 months, you've had 122 inquiries, one almost set to go, and possibly 12 applications that are working their way through the system.
Senator, that's been in the last six months. So that's since uh late April of this year.
>> Okay. Thanks, Chief.
>> Thank you very much. Um that concludes our questions with um the National Reconstruction Fund. Thank you for coming. Um we will suspend shortly while we invite um the next witnesses, the net zero economy authority to join us. Thank you. Thank Hello everyone. Um, the committee welcomes representatives from the net zero economy authority. Um, I welcome Mr. David Shankey, chief executive officer of the NZA. Uh I do we um No, we don't have an opening. Do we have an opening statement from you that's been circulated?
>> No, I could make a short short statement.
>> Uh it's up to you. In the interest of time, we are inviting people to table >> statements. Okay. >> Um we can go straight to questions. >> much appreciated. Thank you. Uh we will go to Senator McDonald. Thank you.
Um I wanted to ask you some questions about uh some of the regional plans and particularly around uh liquid fuels, bofuels, renewable fuels and if you could tell me how um just give me a framework for where that's up to because I'm aware of a few projects but just >> bit bogged. I think
>> Senator um I think some of that work a lot of that work would be being led by the Department of Regional Infrastructure. That's where that that uh line of questioning um probably should be placed. if I could, you know, if if we could talk a little bit about what we're sort of seeing is in opportunities in different areas. Um, we are certainly seeing opportunities for liquid fuel projects um in Gladston and also in the Hunter. Uh, and it is one of the industries that we do see as very important part of economic diversification in those two areas. But I might ask Travis to to talk about those.
>> I I might just add principally this work is being led by Department of Transport where the where the production credits are uh located. Uh obviously uh working my department and um uh and the department of uh in DQ. Uh but there is some engagement of course with net zero economy authority.
>> Yeah, I guess that's what we're trying to ascertain, isn't it? If um if all these workers will lose their jobs under the net zero plan, then we better have equivalency in numbers and certainly pay for it workforce to go to. And the uh liquid fuels or sorry the fuels uh industry is one that has been um you know sustainable aviation fuels um you know cane pengama few different fuel types that have been of huge interest in North Queensland and I'm just trying to understand you know what modeling and work you're doing and and trying to understand how
where we're up to. So Senator, perhaps I could explain the way we are approaching that challenge. Um, of course, as you are aware, we're very engaged on the closure of uh coal fired facilities and associated with that uh doing work around placing those workers in other opportunities. So that's essentially what the energy and industry jobs plan is about. Trying to make sure there's sufficient training in place well ahead of uh when those stations are scheduled to close. The way we think about this particular problem is much more focused on what the skills that the workforce currently has and then what are the adjacent work um work opportunities in associated industries. So we are agnostic if you like whether an electrician uh who works in a cold power station at the moment ends up working in a construction facility or in construction work or in a renewable facility. We are just most concerned about the appropriate diversification of the surani economy.
>> And I guess it's not just the skills is it? I mean there was a whole um program of work done on um training for a job not training without purpose because workers don't want to do that. So again, you know, that's what I'm just trying to ascertain is what projects, what jobs particularly around these work um these coal fired station powered stations and coal mines and others that you think you've got the necessary thousands of job placements for.
>> Well, just just for clarity sake, remember the scope of this is to do with uh uh power stations that uh that are scheduled for closure. Uh and then the captured coal mines that are um captured by those assets and the associated supply chain um largely in that area say in central Queensland it is largely export coal uh we are uh as a government and the net zero economy authority is engaged in this work but of course the buoyant smelter work alpha hpa you know like there's a series of investments that uh the government has made to make sure that as uh as Mr. Shanki has said, how do you secure investment? We're agnostic about you know like like any good bluecollar investment is good bluecollar engineering investment there and that's what we've been focused upon. I
>> I guess I'm just you know I just want some nuts and bolts. So, the Gladston Power Station um that uh you've got scheduled for closure in March 20129.
>> well, the closure date of course is a matter for the state government, but yes, it's it's around then.
>> So, so I and so the net zero uh economy authority given that you've been given a date of March 2029, [clears throat] >> how many people work at that power
uh, >> Senator Rachel Livingston, division head worker transition. Uh, so as part of the statutory assessment process that we're required to do in connection with power stations that have announced closure dates, um, we are one one of the pieces of information that we're required to um, collect as part of that process is the number of workers that are likely to be affected at each business, including the power station. We're still in an active um uh assessment process for Gladston Power Station. So, we don't have those um exact figures to hand just yet.
>> How often do you go to Gladston?
>> Uh so, Senator, we were there. Um so, that includes myself and and the CEO were there at the beginning of September. Um I think you were there last week as well.
>> And they can't tell you how many people are employed at the power station. Um so
Senator what we are seeking to do as part of the information gathering process is to be certain on a couple of things. One of them is uh on the number of people who directly work for the power station, the number of people who are contractors, the number of people who can be redeployed uh within the facility. Um and so I don't want to mislead you with a with a by giving you the wrong number at this point.
Can you give me any numbers?
>> Um, I better take that on notice and and come back and and give you a number.
>> That that would be good. So, if you want to break those numbers up into those those sort of groupings, that would be
>> it'll just be an early stab at it because there's there's direct employees are simple, but there's a range of other um groups that are within the remed of
um so when you go to Gladston for example and I know that there are other power station sites across Australia uh who do you generally consult with on
So um we would be consulting with certainly at the when I visited the Gladston P station I consulted with both the management of the station and held two meetings with the uh with the employees of the station. Uh there was the reason for having two meetings was the number of people who wanted to engage in the process and the and the limited amount of room that they had they they had there. So it was [clears throat] certainly um over 100 people uh in in uh present then we would also engage with the council. We were also engaging with what we call you know potential receiving employers. Gladston, as you know, is a thriving industrial ecosystem >> and there is a great need for skilled labor in that area. And so our absolute focus in going through this process is to make sure that we are maintaining that skilled labor from the Gladston Power Station in in the Gladston industrial ecosystem. So for that reason we're engaging um of course with the owners Rio um and all their associated entities in the in the in the group uh also the port um Oraca um we do a lot of our engagement through the Gladston Engineering Alliance which then allows us to uh get into a lot of the supporting um ecosystem of Gladston and ensures that you know that that kind of demand and flow is there too. Now, of course, we're also interested in those entities that are involved with the construction of renewable projects that are in the central Queensland area. And as you would be aware, um, some of those firms are also BL based in the Gladston
>> What sort of concerns are workers in the community raising with you when you're
Um I think the concerns that people would have in Gladston are not unlike um concerns that communities have or any workplace would have when there is a change in that and that they are keen to know what support is available um what the future opportunities might be. So it's uh I don't think any of the the issues would be surprising to anyone who was who's entered a workplace where uh there is a change in circumstance coming. They're just very keen to understand uh what what support might be available and what what what what sort of different things they might move on to. Our experience in other places has been that people often take the these opportunities that come along because there are sort of um obviously redundancies involved as well to think about different careers uh as well as come going to ones that are directly associated with the ones they're currently got got as well. So that's why it's so so important um we think is to have these uh arrangements in place as early as possible so that people can be making their own decisions about that uh being aware of all the financial opportunities that they have before them and all the training opportunities they
Can you give me an example where community feedback has changed the authorities's approach that that some of those concerns that are raised with you? Um has there been an example of where you've gone okay this community we might have to do
look I mean I think what I was alluding to before in the sense that you can't make an assumption that when someone is finishing a job in a particular place that they want to do exactly the same thing as they've been doing in that facility. So um I think that changes how you think about what training should be available and what career counseling should be available um because you can't make the assumption that the the role that they currently do is something they definitely want to do in perpetuity.
>> Okay. Um what mechanisms are available for a regional community to raise concerns directly with the authority?
>> Uh certainly Travis Bover division hand regional transformations division senator as um as Mr. Shankey's outline we're regularly um in the region. We're looking to establish a permanent presence there in terms of staffing. Um but um there very regularly uh looking to so we we through some of the projects that we've been doing we have established um reference and advisory groups um among sort of industry local governments and so forth that we've used to engage on particular projects. And one of the things that we're working towards at the moment is to establish an advisory group for the region that can provide direct input and that we can work with directly in terms of uh understanding what the priorities are in terms of um us and and others supporting u transition in that region. Um so we're looking to um establish that mechanism to um to build on the engagement that we already uh regularly have. Um
>> so what about smaller communities? So you know Gladston is obviously the big center. You've got Rockampton quite close by which is also affected. What about some of those smaller towns townships that are around? How do they engage with you if they're not part of an industry group or the bigger council
>> uh so they're certainly part of our engagement as well particularly through councils but also um others as well. So our um uh our attention isn't exclusively on on Gladston. It's uh it's across all those councils um in the central Queensland region.
>> Okay. I'm just I'm I'm still waiting to hear an example of how you're engaging with the smaller community. So through the councils often smaller communities don't feel well represented by their big brother town or or council. And I'm just wondering are you holding forums in those smaller communities? How are you going about understanding who to speak
I think I think it's fair to say that that um when an entity like the a Commonwealth entity like the authorities engaging in place, you are predominantly doing a lot of that uh engagement through peak bodies. Um whether that is the councils or industry entities as well. Uh so yeah there is a hopeful premise in that that those peak bodies are representing th the communities and representing their views along the way as well. So we we we don't we don't have a rolling set of you know um engagement u beyond systems that we would set up to do that.
>> Do you have grant money available?
>> No we do not.
>> Okay. So, so what you're seeking to do is to put employees in touch with a TA program or a university program or us.
>> Sorry, I was I was um I might correct that because I was referring to whether there was grant money available to communities, but we do specifically have grant money as part of the employee program. And so I'll ask Rachel to talk to him.
>> Senator, uh we've been um allocated approximately $37 million to support the redeployment um specifically of workers whose jobs are impacted by power station closures and to connect them um with
>> So could you give me an example of that? Does the grant of of that $37 million does uh could I come along and say right I need to engage with local businesses so I need a grant to rewrite my CV or just explain a bit more how that would
work. >> So so probably just to say at the outset that the grant guidelines themselves are um still under development. They're very close to being finalized, but because we're still about 12 months away from a power station closing, we don't expect that program to open um probably until early 2027. Um but to go to your broad sort of point and without getting ahead of ourselves um that that program is focused on providing the funding directly to a local business to engage an imperse job's impacted by a power station closure. in terms of that where that particular employee would go go for um to get support um that's what's provided for under our legislation. So um under our act the employer has the obligation to provide um career advice, training, financial advice depending on what the employee needs.
do you think that the authority has the capacity to act as an honest broker? If you go to a community and let's stick with Gladston and the community says well actually the the jobs that we need here remain fossil fuel reliant either export coal or um uh polyine manufacturing or you know some other is there is there uh an ability for the authority to say to the government, well actually we have to give you some full and frank advice that this community is reliant on on uh emissions, heavy emissions uh industries and we we're going to have to vary our
So certainly you know when any any public servant engages with the community it's appropriate that they reflect uh you know when asked what what that particular community says. But at this at the same time, our our our legislation that sets up the authority is around um promoting opportunities uh in the net zero economy and ensuring that um uh impacts of that transition are appropriately mitigated on particular workforces. So um you know it it is appropriate of course to always reflect community feedback as as a normal part of your work. Uh but the opportunities that we would be looking for would of course be um uh uh ones that we think are sustainable in the long term and represent economic diversification of
that area. Has there has the authority recommended uh the delaying of any of the power stations coal fired power stations on the basis that uh adequate replacement employment or reliable electricity was not yet available?
>> So our our role is exclusively around the social and economic impacts. The decisions around closure are um you know almost exclusively on the power stations themselves but there can be in some limited circumstances some directions by AIMO to extend the life of a power station. Uh but uh that that's not our role in the system.
So what about recommending that uh that you retain coal or gas production to maintain jobs in a region rather than have people have to move away?
>> So our the challenge that the government has set for us is around economic diversification and ensuring that there is uh sufficient jobs in that in that regional economy overall. So um the I mean the answer to that question is what we are looking for is that there are sufficient alternative industries emerging as um as the changes that I think you've been talking about and I've watched some of the earlier uh discussions >> as the changes in export pro export coal sort of occur
>> and it's and it's like again the specific remitt of the agency the authority the uh is is in relation to those power stations and the captured coal mines. Um it is not a decision for them like ultimately it's really the state governments that have made decisions about about power station closures. Sometimes those dates do shift um uh out basically like f further out um but that that is often a good development um because it means that the power station can be kind of maintained and that power station I think you know who knows uh what decision the Queensland government will make about about that. Um but in any case that doesn't mean that the authorities work isn't still important. That is number one making sure there's kind of a plan for people but number two the economic diversification work whether or not a power station closes in 2030 or 2032 it is an unambiguously good thing if there is a new manufacturing investment for the region.
>> So I guess let me turn to that. So I touched on on renewable fuel earlier. Um, can you give me some other examples of industries that uh you think that Gladston might be developing that would allow pathway for workers to transition
>> Uh, thank you, Senator. So um in in Gladston, some of the industries that we're focused on in terms of providing future growth and and job opportunities are clean energy supply chains, uh lowcarbon liquid fuels as you reference, critical minerals, um obviously industrial manufacturing um there's there's a lot there and it's about sustaining it and continuing to grow it. Uh and circular economy um is another opportunity.
So, a number of the projects that have been proposed in North Queensland and um I can't speak for right across the country seem to be entirely reliant on government subsidies and uh I am concerned that as those subsidies um either the the final payment doesn't occur or they you know it becomes apparent that it's not actually a business, it's a subsidy farm that we are encouraging employees to think that they have a pathway into a new job but that that job is not sustainable. And so again I just want to ask about the authorities's role in I in how you are promoting long-term sustainable transition for employees and uh that that you're providing you know honest feedback because otherwise my next question should be do we have to calculate what's the dollar per job that it's going to cost in subsidies for the taxpayer or what is the amount per region that the government's going to have to spend uh in order to keep these jobs in place in these regions when we could just keep the industries that we've currently got maybe delay the net zero targets
that >> it's not the uh authorities's role to be I just I just that that position is so far from reality. Like it's just so far from the real world industrial position in in Queensland.
>> Can you give me some examples of these jobs that are coming for these workers?
>> Well, so there's in in that community
>> reliant on subsidies.
>> Well, well, Senator,
>> no, no, just ask.
>> There is there is one example. There is uh uh firms like it is true that that the government's support package for the boy smelter delivers 7.5 billion dollars worth of investment in new electricity thousands and thousands of jobs hundreds
>> Aren't they the same people billions of dollars to keep them in a job.
>> But but but that's the problem. Your approach to this is so far from reality. The owner of that facility has said stay on coal fire power. We're gone. We're out of here.
>> Double they've continued [clears throat]
to say that are not hippies. They are not climate activists. They are pragmatic business people who have made a call [sighs] >> and and if you adopted the position that Mr. Taylor and and your team have
adopted. I have serious questions for this authority. Not a lecture.
>> Serious questions.
>> Not a lecture from you. I want to know what jobs are available for these people that aren't costing every other taxpayer
to fund it. >> There uh you go around the corner, Alpha HPA. You go around the corner from there, Origin. You go around the corner network of industrial ministers going
through the um uh organizations that have the jobs. But um also to be fair, you've had 24 minutes of um questioning um with these witnesses.
>> Is that that's that's hardly scratching the surface. I mean, if you want to let them go, let them go. By the way, >> I'm not saying let them go. I'm just saying highlighting that you've had plenty of time for questions for what this agency is actually doing for workers, that they have real jobs, that when the subsidy runs out, they don't have to move towns anyway. And I just think you should be honest with them. That's all I want. Well, well, Senator,
those supports are the only thing that stands between those communities and and those facilities exiting.
the demand for coal and triple the demand for coal by60. >> Well, we will see you transition them. Let them continue. But aluminium is
fundamental for our security and your
fundamental for our resilience and our
security. Fundamental to it and your plan would see the joint close. That's the problem.
>> That's only because mechanism no you misunderstand like just
talk to the company. Understand what the position is there. It is all about >> That's their competitive position.
>> What you're saying is rubbish.
>> Well, tell tell them that. instead of doing the social media, talk to the company people actually put serious money in these places.
>> Um, Senator McDonald, would you like to um ask any more questions?
>> Well, I'm not sure that the minister will stop talking. So, um,
>> he he stopped now. You've got a good window. We'll see if um, we can keep
going. So my qu my final question to you is uh I'm I'm trying to understand how sorry I've been distracted from my chain of train of thought now. I'm trying to understand uh what it is that you're going to um uh assist these these employees with. Your website currently promotes green metals central to the transition and presents emerging industrial projects and initiatives as regional opportunities. I'm looking for one largecale Australian green iron, Australian steel or Australian aluminium facility that's operating commercially without taxpayer assistance. want to know if you think that there is going to be ongoing public support required to project the uh the agenda that the authority promotes. Do do you calculate how much taxpayer support is required for these new jobs? going to get them as
>> so Senator role is to ensure that the individuals who work in the coal fire power station can choose choose their path when the facility closes and that they have the appropriate training in place to do that um and that they are making maximum use of the the very high degree of skills
>> I think that's all my questions. Thank you, chair.
>> Thank you. Thanks very much, uh, Senator McDonald, and, uh, thank you to the NZA. That concludes our questions with you. >> Thank you. >> If it pleases the committee, we still have a little time before the dinner break. Um, the proposal is that we bring and stow forward uh, the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organization because our next witnesses are not actually here yet. So I think that is
>> how long have we got before the dinner break too?
>> Uh 15 minutes. >> So we the committee's agreed to that. So we will just um suspend for a short moment while the ANSDO people join us.