Senate Economics Legislation Committee, , 7:56:22 to 8:18:20
Geoscience Australia details its work in earthquake monitoring, satellite-based fire detection, and groundwater mapping in Northern Australia.
Topics: Public safety, Water management, Land management
Speakers: Senator Susan McDonald, Alison Rose, Dr Andrew Heap, Melissa Harris, Senator The Hon Tim Ayres, Dr David Robinson, Interjection, Senator Lisa Darmanin
Okay. Um, the committee now welcomes representatives from Geoscience Australia. I welcome Miss Melissa Harris, uh, chief executive officer of Geoscience Australia. Uh, Mr. Harris, I believe if you have an opening statement, we will have it have been circulated. >> No. No statement. Thank you. >> Okay. Fabulous. We will go straight to questions then. Um, Senator McDonald, >> thank you very much, Chair. And I am
ashamed that I have not worn my scarf today because, as you know, I do like to and um we like to celebrate the geography. Minister, do you have a geosciences tie?
>> I have uh a shortage of ties in Parliament House. Um, Senator, if there's a >> Geoscience Australia tie I could, you know, >> take to add it to what appears to be kind of a cat box of ties that I have in
>> Well,
>> office, I'd be delighted to uh I'd be delighted to put at the top of that
>> Well, I think that's an invitation, isn't it? the the geocciences tie was after the the World Geossciences Conference in Brisbane in 2012. >> And it's it's the Geological Map of Brisbane, which
>> I'm pretty certain that any Geoscience Australia merch that comes in the Parliament House is snaffled by the Minister for Resources before I can lay my hands on it. >> If there's any gear you can get me, I'd be delighted to get it.
>> All right. Fabulous. we often don't get a lot of time and today will probably be not wildly different but I think it is important uh geosciences is one of the agencies that I think Australia should be genuinely so proud of. you know the mapping work, the deep understanding not just of geology which obviously I um always talk about but you know the the water mapping um earthquakes um mapping and I probably don't uh I don't ask you enough questions about the natural disasters and the hazard reduction side and I thought we might talk about that a little bit today um because I I yeah I just think you're a terrific organization and I'm so delighted that the government has um has funded you for a longer period with a more certainty. I think that's been been a great investment. So, uh do you think we could just talk about the natural hazard side uh and and then I'll come back to some of my more >> traditional questions.
>> please. Our um community safety branch um performs some incredibly significant um essential services. Um our national earthquake alert center um is providing earthquake monitoring um 24/7. It's providing really critical services throughout our entire across our continent and our entire region. Uh so that's one example of some of the natural hazards work we're doing. We're also in partnership with the Australian Climate Service uh providing um all sorts of hazard impact assessment and modeling work which is really critical for um our states and territories and used and relied on heavily by other agencies including NEMA for example. Uh we perform nuclear monitoring as part of the comprehensive nuclear testban treaty. So, it's a really a diverse capability that um supports a range of really essential capabilities that keep
>> So, each time when when recently there's been a couple of uh earthquakes measured on shore. >> Yes. >> And we we see the the the RT measurement and you know where it was and whatnot. That's all geoscience's work.
>> Uh yeah, not RTER but magnitude. Um but yes, it absolutely is. Yes, it's a 24/7 capability that we run from our head office in Simonston and um deeply expert team that um provides those surveillance activities around the clock and applies their scientific skill um in terms of reporting those out to the emergency services agencies right across the country when a significant event occurs.
>> Do you think there's been more or less activity this year?
Um, I'm pro possibly not the best expert. It might be better to pass it to David Robinson, but
>> happy to take that. Thank you for the question, Senator David Robinson, acting chief of the place and communities division. Uh, there has not been uh in a statistically a statistically meaningful way any more or less earthquakes. They do uh eb and flow over time and you see quite a bit of variation from one year
It is fascinating. We could go down a whole rabbit hole on um earthquake science, I'm sure. Do you also monitor uh the temperature of the earth?
>> Be happy to respond to that. And maybe you are referencing. We leverage uh earth observation satellite imagery that provides infrared radiation of the earth's surface which is can provide an indicator of potential fires. Um and so we leverage multiple data sources uh to be able to provide a national scale service >> that is for situational awareness not for operational response but does indicate potential fires.
>> So that's the it's not the naffy service because that uses the terror satellite doesn't it? This is the
>> it's actually called digital earth austral hotspots. It's a data service um that is leveraged via na nafi um terror and the actual instrument on board modus um is but one satellite imagery source that we take into our system we perform algorithms on and generate a um a hotspots product. M >> that service in and of itself uh operated for about 26 years and was decommissioned uh in February 2025.
>> Oh. >> So, so that's no longer publicly available.
>> The hotspots is but modus itself as a sensor uh was put into orbit in December 99. It had a six-year design life. It then operated for another 20 years and so it's been decommissioned now. But pleasingly, part of our role at Geoscience Australia when it comes to the hotspots product is to track and monitor uh the actual service and the multiple data streams that we're using, but equally to look for new capabilities as well. >> Uh pleasingly, we're working with the European Space Agency on a new satellite that's in orbit now. It's yet to be commissioned. >> Um it's called MET OP one. Once it is commissioned and the data starts flowing, I'm pleased to advise that it'll take us around six months to be able to build the algorithm and we'll bring that into into our data uh pipeline.
It's my understanding that the terror satellite, >> uh is now there was an ABC article earlier in the year saying it was delaying the amount of time for the naffy app anyway, which is I think everybody I know in North Queensland or Northern Australia has naffy on their phone.
>> Sure.
>> Um it's such a great tool, but anyway, uh but that there was a delay in updating fire information.
>> Yeah. What I can confirm is that the terra satellite and the modus sensor on board did take a morning collect uh and it was the only satellite in the constellation um or or the number of sources and I can step through those in a minute that that did do that morning collect in the Northern Territory and since it's been decommissioned it doesn't do that. the MET op, the European Space Agency satellite that is in orbit yet to be fully commissioned will do a morning collect over Northern Territory. So, we're working with our issa colleagues and we look forward to to understanding and bringing it into our pipeline once it's commissioned.
>> So, when you say morning collect, is that as simple as I hope it is, which is it collects data in the morning?
>> Correct. it passes over actually the Northern Territory in the morning and in the afternoon. So at the moment we have >> um we have satellites that do an afternoon collect. Um in addition to that though uh we do actually leverage a satellite constellation provision by the Japan meteorological office agency or organization sorry uh that actually does 10-minute revisits um that collects uh infrared radiation at the earth's surface however it's quite coarse it's quite a coarse data source So you can hear there's multiple constellations and data coming through. With the modus decommissioned, it means there is no longer that morning collect.
>> I mean that's a real priority, isn't it? I the the reason why everybody I know has it on their phone is right now with, you know, bushfire season and and lightning strikes that people can identify where the fire is quickly, work with neighbors, you know, get on to it before it burns out. large sections of rangeand. So um so at the moment terror's terror is operating the motor sensor is out is finished.
>> Correct.
>> And so we're waiting for met one to come online.
>> Absolutely. And in addition we do have the Himawari 9 um Himaari 9.
>> That's not easy to say is it?
>> It is not. Um,
>> so that's from the Japanese.
>> It is from the Japan Meteorological
Agency. >> Can you spell that for me?
>> Um, h I M A W A R I N. >> So that that is uh basically measures infrared radiation, potential fires. It could also be furnaces or really hot rocks >> um every 10 to 15 minutes, >> but it has a low spatial resolution. So, what does that mean? If you think about a pixel, you know, in a photo, it just covers a broader area that it's collecting the infrared radiation. So, um used on its own, it can be a delayed detection or it can emit smaller events. So until we get the met op one or we have access to and that's commissioned um there is that morning gap.
>> So it's not just me. I know there are there will be hundreds of other people just fascinated by this and and it's important to their livelihoods and where they are. So on notice, would you um pretend that I'd asked you a lot of very clever questions and then give me an answer that provides how that framework is working for the for the fire sensing um for Australia and particularly naffy or northern Australia because that's where I'm more interested in. And um and I I think this is I I just wasn't aware of a lot of this detail and perhaps it has been disseminated to the community, but I can guarantee that this is a great ABC rural story and they would love to get this sort of information out. So
>> I'd be delighted to present information on our digital earth Australia hotspots.
>> Fantastic. All right. So just to complete on this earth temperature piece, you mentioned hot rocks, but what um what about the the temperature of the globe? Is this something that's that we actually monitor more broadly? I mean, I know we monitor obviously atmospheric temperatures, ocean temperatures, but what about the the Earth's temperature,
the bit we're on? uh as a geoscience science agency I would suggest that uh we measure below the core on the core and we even measure from space what's happening but their physical systems if you're looking at temperature of the earth um that would be a matter for I would presume the bureau of meteorology to answer
>> okay >> well I'll ask them about that next estimates because I've missed them this time >> uh that is very very interesting thank you and and we'll talk about this again now that I've discovered this whole um I I didn't realize that's terrific. Um so turning back to other natural uh um I was going to say disasters, but it's not just that is that you do coastline measurements and Yeah. Okay. So many things to talk about in so little time. Is there something in particular that the agency's working on that you think is really exciting and that uh you'd want to showcase tonight?
>> Well, look, some of the the digital earth products are um particularly impressive. I mean, they're based on was it a 50-year archive of LANCAT um data. They're the authorative record of coastal change, for example. Um there's a whole suite of products. Ellie might like to explain on what some of those
are. So more broadly in our earth observation program of which digital earth Australia hob hotspots is one service um we're tracking 33,000 km of Australian's co Australia's coastline over the last 40 years
>> is 33,000 our entire coastline
>> correct according to our national mapping >> uh in addition to that we're actually mapping over 300,000 water bodies across our very vast and diverse landscape >> um the location, extent, persistence of water, surface water. It's actually being used by MDBA uh for water availability moni monitoring and irrigation activity. And then more generally, we have an authoritative archive of how our landscape has changed over time through a product called land cover, which actually looks at the what's on the earth's surface, what's on Australia's surface. So everything from supporting farmers with vegetation commission uh condition right through to meeting international uh reporting obligations like environmental economic accounting. >> Uh so through earth observation and satellite imagery we're able to track landscape change over time in the last 40 years by tracking land water and coastal conditions.
>> Right. Do you are you involved with the Queensland government on the vegetation the slats program the satellite >> something something something something system
>> it sounds familiar but I would need to take that on notice and ask the team.
Thank you. Um Paul rightight look I I I just like talking to geocences telling you telling me what else is happening. How about um in the critical mineral space uh we are seeing a whole lot of activity and I was excited when I went out to the Arafura mine site a couple of years ago. They were telling me that they had discovered the or body by using geossciences water mapping to realize that there was an unusual basin arrangement and that there must be something separating the two. I mean that's a great use of um of of you know imaginative thinking and and the data to uh to put those together. But how I mean how are the miners particularly the explorers accessing that intersection of water modeling you know um artisian water modeling and uh as well as the the um the aerial surveys and and other data that that geoscience is collecting.
>> Thanks Anita for your question. Andrew Heap, chief of minerals, energy and groundwater division. >> Look, I think one of the things that we've really noticed is that there is a increased breadth of data that the explorers are looking for now >> as they try to um get their projects off the ground. And so as a result of that, our resourcing Australia's prosperity initiative program is is merging those data sets together. And so what we do now is produce a package of material that people can use that includes the water mapping as well as the geohysical data as you mentioned plus also the geological data. And what we're trying to do is put it together as a package of material that understands the geology and the resource potential in Toto. So what we're seeing is that um the explorers now because many of these critical minerals um projects are in remote parts of Australia where groundwater is the only source of water >> are basically making decisions on the on the basis of not only the geohysics that they for the geology and the resource potential but also the access to the water >> and so we're seeing more of that happening and and of course we're getting a lot of the more we present that the more questions we get and the more um uh I guess demand for that sort of information is coming through from the explorers, which is fantastic to see.
>> So, I've got a a fantastic um map on my wall uh of the resources um across Australia. Do you produce the same thing as a artisian water map?
>> So, the Yes, we we have uh the last map we did though was at a national scale was that and was published I think in 1987.
>> Oh, that's too long ago, isn't it?
>> Yeah. So as like I said as part of our resourcing Australia program we are we are looking to update that map. >> Uh and over time we are releasing um data sets as we go. So almost every year takes about a year to do one of the systems >> and we've got 42 different groundwater systems in Australia. Uh and so takes about a year to get that out and so we're trying to release them every year as we go as we go through the pro uh across the program and across the
country. Thank you for very kindly correcting I'll just finish on this correcting my terminology on that groundwater not artisian water that's um that's absolutely right so uh could I just ask is my last question what um what regions you are in the process of mapping now and do you um given that you are with the um minister for resources but also the minister for northern Australia are you prioritizing the Northern Australia agenda.
>> Short answer that senator is yes. >> Excellent. Good. >> Uh if you're talking about the um if you're talking about the groundwater itself, we're doing some work um uh we are doing some work in Queensland. You'll be pleased to hear uh on ground on springs, natural springs, art, our teaching springs. Uh and we've just finished quite a serious amount of uh sampling of the springs across in sort of southeast Queensland. Uh we'll do some more work over the coming year or so in the Georgetown Julia Creek region uh up sort of northwest of Mount Isiza and we've and we've also finished quite a large amount of u water mapping work or sampling anyway in Bernanduru region which is on the border between Western Australia and the Northern Territory.
>> Ju just just to finish on that point. So is it true that the artisian basins and the subartisian basins in that Julia Creek and South regions that they are filled from Papa Newu Guinea?
>> I'd have to take that on notice and I'm not sure of that.
>> This is a campfire discussion and I've been told many times did you know this and I thought actually I've got somebody I can ask.
>> Well similar stories and uh I'd be interested if the answer I notice is
can say is the Great Artisian Basin is is recharged from northeast Queensland and the ranges there as the water flows through there.
>> Northeast Queensland, not Papa New Guinea at all.
>> Well, I'd have to I'd have to cuz because the monsoon covers that whole region. I'd have to I'd have to take that on notice.
>> All right. on notice. Would you tell us where those aquifers are recharged from and including the New South Wales ones, I assume, is what you're referring to, Minister? >> Always stories. >> And there's always a story, isn't there? And and if there's a new map of that, any of that regions that you could um
>> This is Senator McDonald trying for merch again. [laughter]
>> Yes. >> Shamelessly. No, it's terrific. I'm I'm very grateful for the work you do and um and for Yeah, I'm very grateful and and uh being so data driven. I I've asked questions all week about data. It's it's I'm I'm an accountant by trade. It's very makes me wildly interesting to talk to at a party as you'd imagine, but the data is worthy actually. So, thank you.