Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 4:17:19 to 4:30:37
Discussion regarding protest slogans, intifada chants, and the impact of the Middle East conflict on social cohesion in Australia.
Topics: Social cohesion, Antisemitism, Hate speech laws
Speakers: Hon Penny Wong, Hon Michaelia Cash, Hon Sarah Henderson, Unknown Speaker, Raff Ciccone
>> Uh thank you very much chair and obviously due to time I will start moving through questions um as quickly as possible. Um Senator Wong uh what is the government's um interpretation of the chant globalize the intera
portfolio but I've made public statements about that already.
>> Okay. So could you give me then your understanding of what globalized the interfa actually means?
>> I I have made public statements about the um have to gra my concerns with that particular
>> could you tell me what it means?
>> I think I don't use it so you could probably ask the people who use it but I think it is being used I think seigal talked about it as I think the phrase she used it is used to whip up hatred against Jews.
>> Correct. Exactly. Thank you. I don't
know why I have said I have May I >> thank you. Um I I've said and I think she's right.
>> Correct. It is that is the accepted meaning of globalize the intervvada.
>> Well I can't we can't speak for everybody who uses it but I'm saying this is how people have understood it and experienced it. So I think in a society where we we know we have to >> turn down the temperature, lower the temperature here in this country. Um but I I would rather people did not use it.
Correct. So in terms of the comments by Miss Tammen during the visit of President Herzog from Gatigle to Gaza globalize the interifarta uh do you condemn those
comments >> senator are we we going to do a cycle of outrage are we about you as the foreign minister >> I can't I can't answer
>> given that it was the president of Israel visiting to condemn those statements
>> senators let's just get back to questions and answers you answer the Question Minister will answer. >> Minister,
>> the Prime Minister was asked about this this week. I refer you to his answer. I think we should be turning down the temperature. I do not believe that Australians uh want our politicians to turn up, dial up the outrage and dial up the temperature when we we know this is a divisive and difficult issue for our country. Now, I I you know my personal view about those statements. I've said so publicly. Uh but I don't think uh this uh cycle of outrage that people on we've seen it in the chamber from the from the Greens political party as well as from the coalition is helpful to our
Well, I would actually say to you, Senator Wong, in your capacity as the foreign minister in particular, given uh it was the president of Israel, a foreign dignitary who was attending uh this country where these chants were made at the rally in Sydney. I would put it to you that Australians actually want their government to condemn uh in particular in this instance an Australian of the year using a violent chant at a public rally worse though not just globalize the enter but from Gadigle to Gaza globalize the enter so again Senator Wong I'm going to ask you personally in your capacity as the foreign minister the prime minister He can be asked in his capacity as the prime minister. I am asking you in your capacity as Australia's foreign minister. Do you outright condemn the statements made by Grace Tame from Gadigle to Gaza globalize the antifarta?
I'd make two points, Senator Cash. Well, three. one is we all know what you're doing which is to try and continue to elevate this disconlict here in this country and I do not think that that is doing the nation a service. Secondly, I stand by what I have said about that chant and others and I have been clear and public about it. Uh the the the third point is you had an opportunity to vote uh to both criminalize but also prescribe hate speech. You you had an opportunity as your party to do what the executive council of Australian jury asked us to do which was for the parliament uh to ensure stronger provisions against hate speech. Not only did your party uh refuse to vote for it, you yourself were absent from the chamber uh for the legislation that had been put up, which had been agreed with the opposition leader, Miss Lee. So, I'm not going to take lectures from you about hate speech because you want to come in here and have a political political argument about your outrage uh around a phrase, but you will not do anything, including both what the executive council of Australian jury wanted and Miss Seagull, the uh anti-semitism envoy wanted. Your party refused to, and so did you.
Minister Wong, look, I just
>> I think you're a little confused about the legislation because we support.
>> I do object to the way you've reflected on Senator.
>> Oh, don't worry about that. I couldn't care less. Good.
>> What I I just want to reflect.
>> See, I can sit here and say from Gatle to Gaza, globalized the Enifard as the shadow foreign minister is an absolute disgrace. An absolute disgrace. And I condemn those statements being made. Let's just get back to point Senator Wong that as the foreign minister all you've got is excuses and insults. I
also condemn those comments. Can I just raise a a point here minister? >> When the prime minister was asked after minister said from the river to the sea Palestine will be free means different things to different people. The prime minister was asked about that particular cry and he was very clear that he denounced that particular cry and that particular slogan after minister cla made those statements. So it is not inappropriate for this question to be addressed to you as Australia's foreign minister. I've
terms of the chanting uh in particular led by Miss Tammen of from Gadigle I assume you
>> keep going please
>> from Sydney to Gaza uh globalize the interifard um has the government raised these comments with Miss Tammen >> Have you raised the comments then with Miss Tam in your capacity as foreign minister?
>> Well, the foreign minister of Australia doesn't ring up everybody who has said things during this debate. Senator >> on both. >> No, but I put it on both sides. No, on both sides. And I understand again you want to dial up the outrage despite the fact that you your party refused to supportification. minister finish. >> Madam, Senator, I think I have the call. Not yet.
>> You do have the call, Minister. >> Thank you, Deputy Chair. You're
>> You're You're interrupting me again. >> You come in here and dial up the outrage, but when it counts, when you could vote to strengthen our hate speech laws, you refused to. your party refused to support them >> and you went directly against the anti-semitism envoys report and the calls for the from the executive council of the Australian jury. for everyone. Well, >> thank you, Senator Henderson. We don't
need your
>> I would suggest perhaps if you are serious about wanting to deal with these issues, instead of dialing up political outrage, you could have legislated. >> Now, in terms of the the I have made public statements previously about those uh a range of um the phrases you have outlined. Uh I've done so on more than one occasion, and I'd refer you to those
comments. Uh well, Minister, I put it to you that Miss Tab's statements have caused great distress to Jewish Australians and uh I would have thought this was a great opportunity for you at Senate estimates to ensure that the Australian people know that the government and in particular you as the foreign minister uh condemns not just the term the use of the phrase but the use by Miss Tammen in the context that she did in particular given It was the Israeli president who was visiting Australia and worse than that. Could you remind me why was President Herzog visiting Australia?
>> I think everybody knows what you're doing Senator We had the worst.
>> What was the stated >> reason for President Hersog's visit?
You've heard me say it many times, Senator. I mean, Senator, President Herzog was invited at the request of members of the Jewish community. He is here. He was is was here to um mourn with and to support uh um the those who uh lost loved ones and uh have lived through the worst anti-Semitic terrorist attack in our country. Uh, and if you want to have a bipartisan approach on anti-semitism, I'm up for that. I don't believe that we do that by dialing up the outrage and dialing up conflict. I think Australians are tired of the conflict being dialed up here. What we need to do uh is to return to a place where we can actually discuss our differences uh including uh on Gaza with respect. uh and that we should model that.
>> Does your government take any responsibility at all for the rise of anti-semitism in Australia, which is now quite frankly shocking the world since the massacre of October 7th, 2023?
>> Well, I think the prime minister has responded to to that previously. uh you know we um we took uh a great many actions uh in the context of rising anti-semitism uh and we are taking more uh and we will do uh we will work uh with the community with community leaders the broader Australian community and the parliament uh to stamp out anti-semitism anti-semitism and all forms of hate have no place in our country. And yet here we
are under your government, Senator Wong. It is incredibly distressing. And quite frankly, if Australians can't be outraged over the deaths on Bondi Beach, I don't know what they can be outraged by. Uh are you aware of reports that Labour MP Anthony DeAdam attended the rally and other Labour MPs MLC's were present at the rally in Sydney um protesting against President Herzog?
>> These are state MPs,
>> correct?
>> Uh well, I am now.
>> Excuse me.
>> I am now.
>> Oh, so you weren't aware. You hadn't say the media reporting the considerable stress that it caused to the Jewish
Well, Senator, um I have not read all the media on this. Uh and obviously yesterday I did engage with President Herzog and members of the Jewish community over the state lunch.
>> Yes. And I had a meeting with President
>> Yeah. I'm just saying, you know, it's I I you not not aware um other than what you reference and through I assume through public reporting.
>> So you weren't aware that several parliamentarians from your own party albeit state parties were protesting against the president of Israel visiting Australia. Is that what you're saying?
Well, can I just say in relation to protest, I think the prime minister is um articulated the position of the government, which is we we ask people to respect the reasons for President and the context for President Herzog's visit. Um we understand people have different views about this. People have different views about the Middle East and and uh what we have seen uh over the last two years. um uh but we ask that people respect uh the reason for the visit.