Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 4:30:37 to 5:34:27
Policy considerations regarding the repatriation of ISIS brides, clean energy partnerships, and Iran sanctions.
Topics: National security, Renewable energy, Human rights
Speakers: Hon Penny Wong, Jamie Isbister, Speaker 19, Raff Ciccone, Lidia Thorpe, David Pocock, Elizabeth McGregor, Hon Michaelia Cash, Inderpal Sidhu, Jan Adams AO PSM, Julie Heckscher, Michelle Chan, Paul Griffiths, Speaker 20
Can I also then take you to another topic then and that is in relation to something that we have previously discussed at estimates and it is the return of the ISIS brides. So, Minister, can I ask you um have any more ISIS brides arrived in Australia since December Senate estimates of last
>> Senator? Not that we're aware of.
>> Not okay. Not that you're aware of. So,
>> I think the simple answer is probably
no, but the Senate estimates in December, and I'll just get you to reconfirm this. to confirm that two ISIS brides and their four children arrived in Australia in September 2025.
Uh that's correct. We've said that before.
>> That is correct. Yes. And so from September 2025 until today, it's the government's position that no further ISIS brides have returned back to Australia.
Senator, the Department of Home Affairs would have the most precise information. I'm just uh sharing with you what I am aware of.
>> That's fine. Minister, do you know if any further ISIS brides have returned to Australia uh since September 2025?
>> My answer is the same as Miss.
>> Um is the department aware of any former ISIS brides and their family members currently seeking to return to
Senator, we've said previously um that we have long been aware uh that there are Australians in IDP camps who have been seeking to return to Australia for quite some time.
>> Okay. Um are you able to give us an indication of how many that is and which camps?
>> Uh Senator, I'd have to take that on notice. Uh the numbers, we don't have much precision on numbers.
Um has the department um had any interaction with Save the Children um who has been facilitating the bringing of the ISIS brides and their four children back to Australia.
Uh Senator, we engage with Save the Children obviously in a number of uh contexts. Uh they are uh one of the uh parties on our NGO cooperation program. for example in the aid program. Uh so I cannot be precise about uh uh our contacts with save the children.
>> Okay. It is obviously in the context not so much of aid. Aid is obviously a context that you would have um discussions but in relation to the return of um ISIS brides and their
children >> uh on that in that context. No.
>> Have they raised their repatriation work
any contact with them, Senator.
>> Um,
>> Senator Wong, it is it is was public. I this going back sometime when was the court case?
>> Uh, 2020.
>> I think the Save the Children have had a public position about repatriation. >> No, no, I that's what I'm this is not it is well, you know,
>> their position is is well known. So it's the government's interaction with Save the Children uh in relation to them coming back that I'm wanting to explore. >> Uh so Minister, have you had any discussions with Save the Children uh in relation to their repatriation work uh as it stands with ISIS brides and all their children?
>> No. I think you've asked me this on notice and I've indicated no. I think I from memory I've indicated previously and probably reflected in the quam um question on notice that I have met with save the children uh to discuss um my list here is aid cuts the situation in Gaza and also because we asked uh civil society to work with us on the declaration for the protection of humanitarian personnel but not on the issue you raised.
>> Okay. So, Minister, have you ever requested or received advice uh about whether or not any other groups are seeking to fund the repatriation of the ISIS brides other than Save the
>> I don't believe so, Senator, but I would just say this is not DEFAT. This would be home affairs.
>> No, I understand. But there is a crossover in terms of >> the the department has given evidence previously. Um we in relation to passports etc and the giving of passports uh or the facilitation of uh the giving of passports uh which is want what I'm wanting to um just confirm um before travel documentation had been issued to the group that came back in September 25 uh that saved the children. They're on the record as you said uh were assisting to be repatriated. Had the department received any advice about the funding sources uh that the organization was using to undertake the
Senator, sorry, but it's you're entitled to ask your questions, but you're asking the first question is no. We that Mr. D said the department has not met with them. Now you're asking questions about what did we know about what they were doing when we haven't met with them to discuss it. So it's just
>> meeting with them personally >> does not mean that you don't have knowledge. >> And so I'm exploring the level of department. You've said you don't know. That's fine. I'm now asking the
>> What was the question? Did they have knowledge of
>> how they're actually raising the funds to get them back?
Senator, no we had no engagement discussion with Save the Children on anything related to this issue.
do you have any knowledge as to then who paid for the air airfares etc or other expenses as incurred by the ISIS brides?
>> Sorry, which group? The the one that.
>> We we would know
>> because obviously we've discussed previously at estimates that the government's policy is to permit self-managed returns. >> Well, uh supported by third parties to be fair.
>> Um well, hang on. I think I better respond on that, Senator, if I may. Permit. Uh look, just like your government um flagged and I can't recall if it was you or another minister uh you know obviously people can engage in self-managed returns and I think under your government you made clear that you would see self-managed returns. I would say to you um Australia security agencies have made clear they are prepared to respond to self-managed returns from IDP camps. Um AFP Commissioner Barrett uh has made that clear at estimates. Uh we're appropriately prepared and positioned to respond to any self-management returns from the internally displaced camps. Um Senator, you'd also she also said we we're always positioned and prepared for self-managed returns from that region. Um she referred to an ongoing investigation. >> What I would
>> Sorry, who's she?
>> The commissioner.
>> The Sorry,
>> I just Sorry. I said Commissioner Barrett. Yes. Um, >> now Senator, from your previous history, you'd be aware of existing frameworks, including for example, temporary exclusion orders,
>> correct?
>> Um, home affairs secretary confirmed earlier this week we we had that we have a fairly robust system of managing >> I think what description is Australians of interest, persons of interest. >> Yes. Um, uh, and she talked about the provisions which are now allow that work. What I'd say to you is, you know, our prior first priority is to keep the community safe and we'll continue to look at all the ways we can best ensure
>> Um, just just to confirm, you keep saying the coalition, the coalition, we did not have a policy of self-managed returns for this cohort via third parties. That was not our
>> Senator, it's not a policy. It's a reality. I mean the the the fact is that um we will we have seen under both parties of government people have sought to return without government
terms of the former coalition government we returned orphans at the time of the Commonwealth's choosing. We did not engage with Save the Children as Minister Burke has to allow them to determine when and how a cohort can return. So in terms of your knowledge as DEFAT as to where Save the Children uh is getting the funding from uh to return people, you have no knowledge of that?
>> Uh no.
>> Okay. And minister, you don't either?
>> No. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thanks a lot, Senator Cash. Um, now I know Senator Hodgins may have to go down the committee. So, I'm going to hand the call over to her. I'll come back to the government and then um crossbench. So, Senator Hodgins may.
>> Much appreciated. Thank you, chair. Um, my questions are about the clean energy transition partnership.
clean energy transition partnership,
Shall I commence? Yeah. uh as a signatory to the clean energy transition partnership, Australia has committed to encouraging other governments and their public finance institutions to adopt similar commitments. I'm keen to understand what specific diplomatic engagements DEFAT has undertaken to expand CP membership or engage in programs that support it since we signed in 2023.
>> Uh Senator, I I'll begin and I'll pass it to um our ambassador for climate change. But just to say that obviously in signing this the department of climate change and energy is a lead department in relation to how we work with other countries around transition energy. Obviously the department of foreign affairs and trade we work closely with them about how we support those efforts. We obviously have elements around our own climate financing commitments particularly in our region assisting countries in their energy transition. But um yeah, the lead agency in relation to the CTP is um is the department of climate change.
>> Thank you. Did you want to respond?
>> Uh will Nervvis Ambassador for climate change ju just to add that we work very closely with with the UK who's the lead on the CP including strategizing on the sorts of issues that that you raise Senator including the question of you know how do we attract further members to the to the partnership.
Okay, thank you. Well, um perhaps if you could provide on notice um even how you engage with those colleagues uh on this topic and what support you provide or unless you want to provide that briefly
>> Uh well again I sort of say the department of climate change does have an international partnerships division on on energy transition. They obviously lead on a range of how we um the Australian government works with with countries in close engagement with DEFAT but um yeah Australia engages through wide range of different um international climate forums through the COP etc where um we're regularly engaging with countries around how we collectively trying to drive ambition to um deliver on the the net zero commitment.
>> Thanks. Perhaps on notice if you could provide some specific examples of of that collaboration and support that you're providing. um and particular forums for example that you've been involved in initiating with the department that would be really useful. Um Minister, as Minister for Foreign Affairs, can you rule out unequivocally that Australian taxpayers will not be exposed directly or indirectly to financing new fossil fuel projects overseas through finance, diplomatic facilitation or promotion by your
Um I mean Senator obviously in terms of the um the the partnership it's around how we work together to support countries uh transition to net zero. It doesn't uh completely exclude um uh where there may still be the need and investment in uh um uh fossil fuel uh energy. There's situations we know in response to crises and natural disasters where there is a need for humanitarian aid and assistance where um uh um energy uh recovery and supports required and so um we work closely as we do with through our bilateral program through the multilateral banks and others about how we're accelerating investing in energy transition. We've got ambitious programs in the Pacific where we're supporting countries in the Pacific transition to renewable energy. Um the government uh recently announced another um uh half a billion dollars in the infrastructure financing facility that has a strong focus on on energy and the transition and has a $75 million commitment on Renew Pacific which is focused on delivering uh uh renewable energy projects across Pacific Island. I I
suppose just outside the context of um natural disasters, extreme weather events where perhaps there is some short-term assistance required of that nature. Um can you rule out that government funds are going towards sort of ongoing fossil fuel fuel projects >> or the minister can the minister rule
>> or not? Yeah, Senator, it's it's it's um as I said the major our funding particularly through the ODA program is focused on how we're supporting countries in energy transition. We don't have a blanket exemption that we will not in any situation uh provide funding. There is clear in the um the partnership agreement that you've referred to is around how we're working with other countries to collectively support that
>> And maybe I'll try again to the minister. Do you think that overseas promotion of fossil fuel projects? Of course, outside the context of disaster relief by Australian officials undermines the spirit of the CP or the um clean energy transition partnership regardless of which portfolio department is leading that activity.
>> Senator, I'm sorry, but you don't you can't just get around the um machinery of government by saying regardless of it. I don't think we are we're responsible for the partnership you're asking questions about. So I
think involved >> if they don't
>> I don't well but that's not I mean portfolios have responsibility for particular areas of government particular um the administration of government for legislation for programs for funds and so we're not the ones leading this but can I make a broader point um we we do seek in our development assistance uh to do two things um well to do many things as as you would know from your industry. But um in relation to this uh we are supporting the uh energy transition, climate adaptation um uh resilience uh and so forth. Uh we do it in partnership. So um and just as you would not you know I would hope that you know we we have to be we are respectful partners and we we listen to the priorities that other countries and development partners put to us. That's the basis on which we operate uh in the development space. Uh uh obviously um an example of that is the Pacific Pacific um resilience facility uh which which arose out of me asking in that first year my counterparts leader you know foreign ministers and leaders how do you want us to fund u provide funding on um adaptation and resilience? Do you want it is it best for you to do it multilaterally? Is it best for you to do it bilaterally or is it best to do it regionally? And and that resulted in the the resilience facility um being funded, you know, obviously we we made a big commitment to that, but we also through the Pacific Islands forum process ensure that the the corporate being was brought into um existence uh and have supported that that. So I guess my point to you is uh you know we seek to be guided by the priorities of Pacific partners in
particular. Well, that perhaps minister leads me on to my next questions relation to Sunrise. Um,
>> Sunrise >> in Tim.
>> Um, given a Saka gas's ownership stake in Greater Sunrise, has DEFAT held any discussions with the Japanese government or its public finance institutions regarding potential financing of the project in Team or Lee? Um, and you can table those on notice if necessary.
Senator, this is a project supported by team Oste. You're aware of that. Strongly support.
>> I've got more questions coming, Minister, and I am aware of the project and I I've got questions from the ground in team or lest day from civil society groups on the ground. So I please don't need another lecture in colonialism
>> Okay. Um thanks for that. Um but my point to you is and and you're senator, you're entitled to ask these questions. But I again would say to you >> I don't I think you it is important for you to respect >> what the elected government of team's position is. It may not accord with your political priorities but it is their priorities.
>> May I proceed with my questions please? I have a very short block of time before I have to go to another committee. And
>> I I am allowed to answer the questions.
>> It's not an answer. It's a lecture.
>> Well I wasn't intending to lecture. I I'm [snorts] I'm pointing out the inconsistency with saying we need to be a respectful development partner, but you want us because of your political priorities to ignore what the development
>> I care about climate change and I care
on the ground minister. >> Okay. Well, that's clear. So, you take
those on notice and we'll proceed then
question more questions.
>> Yes, I've got more questions. So, you take that on notice then if you're not providing the answer now.
>> sorry. What was the question? The
question was to provide any discussions with the Japanese government on its public finance institutions regarding potential financing of the project in telese.
>> Uh Senator, I think in the absence of a specific project uh proposal that's live, it's a fairly hypothetical
>> I'm I'm not sure how it's hypothetical.
>> Well, there isn't a current
>> are there discussions being held with Japanese government government or its public finance institution regarding potential financing of the project in Tim.
>> Well, that's what I'm saying like there isn't a specific
>> the greater sunrise is the project. So,
>> it's a it's a potential project. Um,
>> okay. Around the potential project, >> I'm I'm not sure how that's
>> Senator Michelle Chan, Deputy Secretary South and Southeast Asia Group. It is for the Sunrise Joint Venture Partnership to propose a development concept to Australian T-One in line with the criteria set out in the 2018 maritime boundary treaty. They have not
>> Okay, I perhaps I'll I'll put different wording in on notice. Um the the department gave a well scripted answer earlier about how recent engagements in Teeour have been received by the T-R people. Uh I'd like to draw attention now to Tim Marie's not for profofit Lao Hamuk who raised the point that Australia has historic has historically collected approximately US5 billion in oil and gas revenue from fields that we now concede belong to Tim or Lee while disturbingly only US $1.4 billion in development assistance over the same period has been provided. Has DEFAT provided advice on how Australia could return or compensate for these revenues?
Uh, Senator, I don't think that's really a DEFAT portfolio question that you're
>> Senator, the um, but I would make the point I'm not I'm not sure I I I can't verify the figures that you've referenced or um, as I said, as um, the secretary says pro probably
I'm happy for you.
>> I might ask Miss Chan, sorry, I just might ask Miss Chan to perhaps explain the what the prime minister um put on publicly announced when he was in Teeour because it goes to this question of um you under international law um uh you know who would get what proportion of revenue and what Australia has sought to do. So I'll just ask Miss Chan to do
>> Thank you. So Senator, I I did mention this earlier, but um uh both prime ministers when uh the prime minister visited T-Molestee, the two prime ministers announced the quantum of Australia's commitment to establish a dedicated infrastructure fund to support Teleste's long-term economic diversification and its resilience. And Australia will allocate to the fund a fixed 10% of total states upstream revenue from Greater Sunrise funded entirely out of Australia's share of that which would see at least a third of Australia's uh future revenue from the project provided to team or lest through this new infrastructure fund and Australia would establish the fund um uh in the event that any commercially viable solution proposed by the commercial parties is approved by the states consistent with the 2018 maritime boundary treaty and as I mentioned that
>> So what what what that means is that the commitment is in addition to Tim's legal share uh should a project um proceed that we would allocate uh this proportion of what would otherwise be Australia's share share to Tim.
>> Thank you. Yes. And I do have a question about the infrastructure fund. If there is anything additional like in terms of direct assistance outside of the infrastructure fund in relation to my earlier question, can you please provide that on notice? But
>> sorry, what do you mean?
>> Uh in relation to direct assistance that's being provided for that um $3.6 billion gap between revenues taken and expend
>> over many over decades. This is
>> um over
>> would be look we're their largest development partner. I don't know about the figures that you've identified but >> Yeah, if we can assist to understand >> that time frame. Oh, we'll do that.
>> Um, and in relation to the infrastructure fund which you just mentioned, can DEFAT confirm that this fund will be additional to and not offset by reductions in existing development assistance?
>> Yes, that's correct.
>> That's correct. Okay, good. Thank you.
>> That's the intention of course.
>> Yeah. And I suppose then as a followup um will team or lee have discretion to use this fund for things like education, for nutrition, for health care or other social priorities or will it be restricted to infrastructure linked to the gas project or future gas projects?
>> I don't think we've um talked about those details but it would be an infrastructure fund for team or lee to use and we know that they do have um a strong desire for further uh
many of those programs I mean we are the largest development partner as you would know in
>> t and so so they will have agency over how it's used correct um >> good thank you and
>> my point I was not try my point about that senator was simply to say this is additional to our existing bilateral program which goes to a lot of the areas
>> last minute
>> and finally does DEFAT hold a copy of woods 2024 feasibility study on the greater Sunrise development.
>> Uh I'd have to take that on notice.
>> Yeah, please. And if um and if so, we would ask that that be tabled as well, please. A copy of that report.
>> My understand it's uh I would have to check, but my understanding is it's uh commercial incompetence.
>> Um we will check on the first uh but if we did, it's not our document. Um, I I'll look at it, Senator. Um, but I'm flagging as a matter of courtesy with you. It may well be that the answer comes back that we can't release it.
>> Okay.
>> It's just not our document. Yeah,
>> please. Please. Thank you. And um, thank you, chair, very much for your flexibility.
No worries. Always happy to help out. Um, on that note, I'm going to ask a couple of questions now uh, with respect And then after, just so other senators know, I'll be going to the cross bench. I know Senator Thorpe online. Um, and then I'll come to the other two independent senator or senators here. Minister, I know I note in your opening statement that you gave to the committee this morning, um, you mentioned the Iranian regime's brutal crackdown on peaceful protesters, which have, uh, obviously shocked the world. Um, I was hoping you could please outline what the government's u position has been in in response to these events and any other Iranian activities.
can I first say what [clears throat] I have said publicly uh that the Australian government stands with the brave people of of Iran in their struggle against oppression and we express our solidarity particularly at this time with the Australian Iranian community. Uh we have condemned publicly so that's myself uh the prime minister myself and other ministers uh the regime's violent crackdown on its own people. Uh we are uh we have you know as I've a regime that requires the murder or that murders its own people to maintain authority is not a regime with any legitimacy. Uh we call on Iran to uh protect the rights of its citizens to protest. We call we uh condemn the killing of protesters, the use of force, arbitrary arrests and telecommunications blackouts. Um our government has taken stronger action against Iran than any previous Australian government. uh we have sanctioned more than 200 Iran linked persons and entities in including more than uh 100 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Core linked entities and individuals. We have bolstered our sanctions framework to enable us to better more effectively target those involved in oppression in Iran particularly against women and girls. And you would be aware uh that uh we uh made uh the decision to uh expel the ambassador to Australia uh and withdraw Australia's ambassador to Iran uh in light of uh the evidence that the government has outlined. uh we have listed uh the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a state sponsor of terrorism and we were at the forefront of efforts to remove Iran from the commission for the status of women. Uh and we also co-sponsored the human rights council resolution uh establishing an independent investigation into human rights violations. Those are all the things we have done, Senator, but I uh acknowledge uh you know what is happening is uh incredibly distressing uh particularly for the Iranian Australian community. Uh uh we we stand with them at this time. It is and I know many me senators have been uh communicating with members of the community. Uh it is uh very difficult for uh for the community particularly with the blackout to not be able to confirm uh the well-being uh or this uh of friends and family in Iran. And I know how distressing that is for many people in this country.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Minister. And I should just probably note um as you'd be aware um last week the Senate unanimously passed a motion condemning the actions by the Iranian government and stood in solidarity with the Iranian people uh both in Iran and here in Australia. And I just want to acknowledge those senators, particularly Senator PCO, who's in the room with me, who was one of the co-sponsors of that motion. Um just for a few questions I have for the officials at the table. Um, Secretary um I do note the minister Minister Wong spoke about Australia having um expanded our uh autonomous sanctions framework for Iran. Um could you or your officials please provide some further details on what expanding that framework means in practice and what sorts of activities can be targeted that could not have been
Uh yes, thank you Senator Julie Hchshire, first assistant secretary of the regulatory and legal policy division. Uh in July 2023, the government expanded the Iran sanctions framework. That's the country specific framework to introduce an additional set of criteria targeting persons and entities who are or have been engaging in responsible for or complicit in the oppression of women and girls in Iran. the general oppression of the people of Iran and undermining the good governance of the rule of law in Iran and persons or entities who are or have been assisting Iran to threaten or undermine the sovereignty or territorial integrity of another country. Now before that was in place uh the country specific Iran sanctions framework covered proliferation and missile activity and it covered breaches of uh existing UN security council resolutions. It didn't have that broader coverage. Uh so it was a significant expansion. uh the first use of that expanded framework was on the anniversary of the death of Mas Romani and there have in fact since then been well in a total of four tranches using that expanded criteria and in fact nine tranches of sanctions against Iran uh since the the government came to power. uh four of those under that expanded criteria which specifically enabled targeting uh actions against women and girls uh undermining the integrity the governance uh rule of law in Iran and the sovereign and territorial integrity of other neighboring countries but nine tranches four under that three under the Magnitzky human rights and two in relation to the proliferation elements of the existing framework. In fact, uh I think the minister mentioned there's uh 318 in total sanctions against Iran across all of the various frameworks of which 223 uh sanctions were undertaken by this
>> Thanks for that. Um I know you mentioned Masamini. I was also interested to know how many sanctions have been put in place since um she was killed. uh since
I can give you the different sets of uh sanctions that we have actually uh done. Sorry. Uh yes, here we go. Since the death of Masarini in 2022, government has sanctioned over 220 Iranian individuals and entities and listed various IRGC um uh as a state sponsor of terrorism more recently, but there's also been other IRGC related sanctions as well.
>> Yeah. And and just on that, I was also going to ask as a followup if you're able to provide some examples of the sorts of individuals and entities that the Australian government has
the specific individuals.
>> Well, if you could provide some examples to the committee of the sorts of individuals and entities.
>> Senator, I can probably help. Paul Griffith, first assistant secretary of Middle East Africa division. >> Um, as as my colleague, Miss Hexure has mentioned, uh, it's 223 123 individuals, 100 entity 100 entities since the death of Maser Amini in September 2022. Some of the key individuals have included um Iran's minister of intelligence security uh the commander and the deputy commander of the IRGC cods force and uh former defense minister. So there's some examples of very high-profile individuals and on the entity side uh it has included the IRGC intelligence organization, the IRGC Navy and Iran's cyber police.
And and these don't relate to any individuals here. These are clearly people over in Iran, correct? >> Y. >> Okay. So, what sort of action has Australia then been taken in the multilateral system to hold Iran to
Um, Senator, the the minister mentioned some of these, but um, as as uh mentioned with the death of Maser Ramini in September 22, in uh, since then in on the 14th of December 2022 at the UN, we were at the forefront of efforts to remove Iran from the Commission of the Status of Women. Uh we in uh November 2022 we co-sponsored a human rights council resolution establishing an independent investigation into human rights violations in Iran. Um we've regularly joined with international partners to publicly condemn Iran's egregious actions including the G7 rapid response mechanism statement on Iranian trans transnational repression and other malign activities in that was in September 2025 and uh and also this year we co-sponsored the UN human rights council resolution condemning the Iranian regime's brutal repression of protests and renewing the mandates of the factf finding mission in Iran and the special repertoire on Iran.
>> Can you just remind me so we had the the ambassador obviously is no longer here in Australia. Who who else had uh also was asked to leave and what staff remain at the embassy?
>> Uh so we uh we expelled the ambassador plus three diplomats um senator and the Iranian government chose those three diplomats. So at the moment there is a a shaj and two other uh diplomats in the embassy.
>> Okay. I mean like um the minister and a lot of us were quite alarmed by the reports of what we see um mainly online um and particularly the reports of uh the executions and the death tolls and obviously there's a range of um numbers that have been circulating online but I just wanted to ask and have we made clear what our position is uh with respect to the death penalty uh something that the Iranian regime tends to use on a on a very regular basis.
Uh yes, Senator, we've um well, since the outbreak of protests in on the 28th of December, 2025, the prime minister and Minister Wong have issued 10 public statements condemning condemning the regime's brutal repression of its people. Uh DEFAT officials have made four representations outlining the government's concerns to the Iranian shade affairs here in Canra. that includes just last week uh two uh there there I think two representations on the death penalty, Australia's objection to the death penalty, but also specifically in relation >> um to uh to the events that have been taking place since December. And of course, we've spoken about um sanctions, but since December, there's also been sanctions against 20 individuals and three entities connected to the IRGC.
Can you just also just for um just for clarity um and also for anyone that might be watching but advise what the current travel advice is for Iran? There might be maybe different officials that
>> good afternoon Senator. Um, Elizabeth McGregor, first assistant secretary, consular and crisis management division. Our current travel advice for Iran is at level four. That's do not travel. That's the highest level of our con of our travel advice. It's been at this level since March 2020. Um, our ability to provide consular assistance in Iran is extremely limited. um embassy operations there are suspended. Um we say that Australians in Iran should strongly consider leaving as soon as possible if it's safe to do so. Uh the travel advice was last updated on the 27th of January 2026 and it remains current. Uh it notes a range of risks uh which are elevated for Australians including risks of arbitrary arrest and detention and security forces responses to protests which have been severe uh with many protesters and bystanders injured, killed or detained. Uh the security environment is extremely volatile. Um, so we're saying that Australians who remain in Iran, despite our advice, who need consular assistance should contact the Australian government, uh, 24-hour consular emergency center, but obviously uh, they should strongly consider leaving as soon as possible if they can.
>> And what are those contact details? Cuz, uh, like a lot of us, we know a number of people who have family over there. And I'd just be good to get that on the record about what the contact details are if anyone is in need of assistance.
>> Uh so those details are on the website. Um I will give you the number
>> which I'm assum.gov.au. Is that right?
>> That that is the correct number. >> yeah, >> I think we've both got it in front of us.
>> Just right in front of Okay. Well, you
go ahead. Um so that number is 1 1300555135 uh if you are calling from Australia. If you are overseas uh it's uh 61 2 62613305.
>> Given your advice um if anyone still plans to travel there because of family is it something that they're allowed to do in the current circumstances? I mean, we obviously will say, "Listen, you know, we're at level four. We advise not to travel. Do you prohibit someone from
>> Uh, Senator, we're unable to uh prohibit somebody from traveling, but we do ask people to check the Smart Traveler website and to consider our very strong advice that they do not travel to Iran.
>> And do you remain in contact or have their contact details? If you do, do you then send them? Are there text messages, emails, anyone that you know is intending to travel to Iran, >> form of communication, if any?
>> Uh, so Senator, all of our information is on the website. Um, we strongly encourage Australians to look at the website uh and to read the detail that is there and available to everyone. And
if I may add to that, Senator, um it is possible for uh Australians to subscribe to the news channel on the Smart Traveler website. Uh over 200,000 subscribers are currently on that site. That means that they get updates to travel advice as they occur.
My last question um if they are in country and do need to get assistance and can't because of blackouts with telecommunications and internet are there any um other embassies that they
>> Um so uh several of our partners have left Iran. Um uh you know at the moment there are like-mindeds who are still operating there but we do encourage them to call the con emergency center on those numbers Senator um that I gave you before.
>> All right. Thank you very much. Now I just want to see if Senator Thorpe is on the line. I'll move the call around to uh crossbench. Hello Senator Thorpe. You Oh, you're on mute. There you go.
>> Thank you. Thanks, chair. Um, my next questions are in relation to payments and international organizations. Are they at the table or do they need to come to the table?
>> Are you able to tell us which organization, Senator, because it may that that will help us with which
Uh it's in relation to funds going to the US. Thank you. I think um I can see people at the table now. Uh my question is does your department fund the International Peace Institute with headquarters in New York?
Uh Senator um the Australian government has provided funding to the International Peace Institute in the
>> Uh do does the government currently provide funds to the International Peace Institute? >> Uh when was the last time?
>> 2020.
And when was the first time?
>> Uh 2002.
So was defat aware of sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein's financial and personal links to the IPI.
Uh we're aware well there was reports back in 2020 that uh um the Epstein charity had prov had donated funds to
>> So DEFAT was were aware that they were giving money to an organization that a sex trafficker was a part of.
We were made aware when the reporting I think came out in 2020 that the Epstein Foundation had made donations to the
>> So how so on what basis did you cease funding the ICI and when did you stop funding the ICI? >> As soon as you heard that information >> or after that or before that? Well, when
the report came out, the um intellectual peace institute board did a audit uh to look at uh any issues and concerns in relation to the funding that have been provided by the Epstein Foundation. Uh I think it was done by um KPMG. Um and there was no from that report that uh international independent audit that was done there was no issues that were identified of particular of concern in relation to how the funds had been uh utilized or um in any way uh um benefited um Epstein. um our funding uh finished uh soon after
>> soon after this country found out that they were contributing to a fund that had something to do with a sex trafficker. >> So how how long after because >> and and what kind of information was in that report? Was it how did Jeffrey Epstein what was his relationship with this organization? Was it donations, loans? >> What kind of influence did he have in terms of financial
>> Senator? It's not our organization. so I think Mr. Vbistister has explained the Australian government hasn't funded this organization since 2020. Obviously it was there was some contributions made for about for a number of years before that. Um I think you're referencing the report that I wasn't aware of that Mr. Espista just outlined but it's a report done by the organization itself. Is that correct?
>> Yeah the chair the the board itself um when it had become where the issue they commissioned independent report that was done by KPMG.
So what due diligence was done by DEFAT um DEFAT was funding an organization that was associated with a sex trafficker for a number of years prior. what what due diligence is done before this government gives money away and possibly uh entertains a known saf sex trafficker.
>> Just to be clear, Senator, it was not
>> And also to be clear that we don't control the organization. Um we do due diligence in relation to the objectives and financial um responsibilities of any organization. Um the funding that have been provided was for particular um initiatives that the international peace institute does on uh on on research on supporting peace uh negotiations on support to the UN. Um there's a wide range of different governments that have provided funding to the IPI over the years. Um and as I said ours was very specifically at the time since 2002. It goes back uh what now almost 24 years. Um it was stopped in 2020 um for particular things linked to peace uh building efforts in in the UN. As I said, once uh the there was um concerns raised around the Epstein charity foundation provided the board itself commissioned uh an independent uh review which uh was provided to us in terms of the findings of that and since then we've we haven't been providing funding.
So, can you can you when you read the report and realize, oh goodness, we can't be giving this organization [clears throat] any more money. There's a sex trafficker involved. Um, how long after after reading the report did the government actually stop funding or entertaining this um sex trafficker's um influence in this organization?
Well, again, well, two things I'd say on it. It was 2020 that the accusations came out. The Australian government um uh didn't make any payments after 2020. And I'd also be clear that the report that was done by KPMG commissioned by by the board itself. I didn't identify any um uh undue influence that the Epstein charity foundation had at that time.
>> Thank you. So was DEFAT aware that former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd served as vice chair and later chair of the IPI during or after Australia's funding period?
>> Yes, was aware of that. I I'm not exactly sure of the period.
>> So has Defat sought assurance from Mr. Rudd regarding his knowledge of Epstein's involvement with the
>> No, but again I'd say that the um the board as I said when these uh concerns were raised following the uh Epstein uh um legal case and and and the uh the findings of board itself commissioned its own independent report.
>> So no one's had a conversation with Mr. Rod about the his chairmanship and the possible link to a sex offender, sex trafficker.
>> I haven't spoken to Kevin. I can take we can take the question on notice more
broadly. >> Maybe I can add of course none of the specific individuals were in these positions in in 2020. Uh but I also uh am aware that Ambassador Rad uh in his private capacity has made uh statements on the record about this matter like in
>> Can you please proation reling decisions involving the
>> Senator? I'm sorry you just cut out. Can you repeat that? The line must have just cut out.
>> Apologies. Uh, can you please provide on notice all documentation relating to funding decisions involving the IPI? >> Well, I have just two two more
>> we'll do our best on obviously as I said, it goes back to 2002. That's a 24 years, but uh we will take it on notice
>> Thank you. I'd appreciate that. Uh, has DEFAT launched any inquiries following new revelations and now a criminal investigation into corruption being launched by prosecutors
>> You're referring to the IPI again? >> Yes. >> As I said, we haven't funded it for six
>> Okay. So not the government's not interested in what uh this the Australian government may have been a part of when uh this country were funding the IPI not not interested in that now given the new revelations is that not a a point of interest or [clears throat] people in this country
>> I wouldn't say I wouldn't I wouldn't say that's the what I'm simply saying is that the Australian government's engagement with IPI hasn't continues news the last six years. There is, as you well know, Senator, ongoing information that's coming out on the Epstein uh case and foundations. If there's further issues that emerge that uh need to be considered, we'd look at, but I think the issues you're referring to is particular Norwegian individuals who have been uh there's documentation elements that have have come out about their engagement with Epstein, etc. Um but if there's issues in relation to the potentially risks past funding for the Australian government, we we'd obviously always be um wanting to understand what the potential implications and risks are and if there's need to further investigate it, we would.
>> Thank you. And just lastly, was DEFAT aware of the of the close relationship between Epstein and the IPI President Purge Rod Len. Len left IPI in 2020.
>> Yes. So again, him leaving was what led to the decision by uh the board to commission this independent uh audit review by KPMG which I I referred to
>> I think the answer is not unice if there's anything further in addition to obviously this is a um we haven't funded for the last six years but I think the answer to your question is no not until it was reported
>> Okay.
>> All right.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks chair. Thanks, Senator. Uh, now, Senator PCO, I'll come to you and then Senator Robins.
>> Thank you, Chair. Um, thank you for your time this afternoon. Minister, I have some questions about the desecrated war graves in Gaza. And firstly, I want to acknowledge and thank you for your letter yesterday confirming that the prime minister raised um this issue with President Herszog um and that the government has confirmed that the cemetery will be restored when it's safe to do so. Uh, and I'll I'll note I tried to ask DVA um questions about this estimates last night, but they were they we didn't get to them. Um, so I'm hoping to ask questions here. I appreciate some some of these matters best left DVA just
>> well, I thought it was a good idea to write to you cuz I think you said you had a constituent. I thought the quickest way to get I think it was a him what the information was to give it and you could send the letter on. >> No, thank Uh let me just follow
I was interested when um you minister or the prime minister first became aware that the war graves
>> I I'd have to I I I'll have to check that. >> Sure. I I'm trying to I want to make sure my answer
>> Yeah. No, that's that's fair enough.
>> accurate. Um I mean it was reported so I will I will find out when I per when I personally became aware. Is that the question?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. I I will I'll look at that. Um, >> I'll come back to you and see if I can provide something.
>> And what date was um, DEFAT
>> Paul Griffith's uh, first assistant secretary of Middle East and Africa Division, Senator PCO. We'll have to take that on on notice. Um, I don't have the details of when we were um, specifically advised. as you've sort of highlighted, it's a um DVA lead on this. There's some points I'm aware of, but I'll take that on notice.
>> Minister, [snorts] you probably have to take this on notice, too. But if if you could um let us know when you or the prime minister first communicated with the Israeli
>> and person as opposed to I think what my letter to you indicated that there'd been representations >> by defendant defense. Is that right?
>> Okay.
>> Provide information.
>> Okay. And so at a at a ministerial level, nothing until Merszox's visit. But prior to that, DEFAT were active and potentially DVA.
>> Well, perhaps um I might
>> Yes, Senator. So um the embassy's raised it twice with the Israelis with the U Ministry of Foreign Affairs on the 6th of February and with uh defense on the 9th of February.
this was if you were aware of this last year, why was there the delay? Um, was looking at an SPS article where um, RSL first flagged in August 2024 that Australian graves could have been >> why the why the delay in def
I don't know the date that we were first advised of this. Um obviously you know Gaza has been a a war zone and the like and we haven't had the the lead on it. I know there's been engagement with uh the Comwalth War Graves Commission um and there's been some discussions in Israel with I think the British embassy um but uh I can't give you any further information on when we were first advised.
>> Thank you. Um has the Australian government asked the Israeli government to cover the costs of the restoration?
>> I would I don't know, Senator. I think that's a question for DVA.
think I said this to you, you know, I all of the graves uh and places where Australians uh have fallen and are interred uh have great significance for our country. uh and particularly for the Australian veterans community, but for all of us. Uh and you know, it is, you know, one of the the more one of the moving things you we you can do is to in in country to visit the many places around the world uh where Australians are buried. Um now you know it is it is a matter of great importance to the government. It's a matter of great importance to the veterans community. Uh and we have been clear with Israel about the importance these graves hold for Australians and for all Comone comwalth veterans. >> Um I think the lead on this has been DVA. Uh but we have made the representations. I will check on notice um when I think you asked when I personally became aware. Um which I think was more fairly recently. Um it is possible as you say that this may have been I think you said that this has been raised previously. Uh I don't recall it being raised with me previously but I will check.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, Minister, in a another committee earlier in the week, I I read out an excerpt from a letter from a Cambaran whose great uh grandfather is buried in the cemetery. And she's asked me to ask uh what are the plans uh to either restore the cemetery or to repatriate the remains of those diggers? Is is repatriation under consideration? >> Mhm. Okay. Um and who would be uh providing information to um families also? DVA. Can you tell me what date you briefed
>> Uh the foreign minister, you mean? >> Uh no, I can't. I'd have to take that on notice.
>> Okay. Um thank you. said I'd take on notice when we beca, you know, when we became aware. I don't recall knowing about this until recently. >> Sure. >> But it may also, as as uh Mr. Griffiths has said, obviously there's been um quite a lot um of issues in relation to Gaza that have been uh
>> No, thank you. Thank you, M. Thank you. I'll I'll appreciate your work on this. I'll take the rest up with DVA. Thanks,
>> Thank you.