Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 7:05:03 to 8:06:02
The committee discusses the commercial viability of the Greater Sunrise gas project and the effectiveness of targeted sanctions against the Myanmar military junta.
Topics: Fossil fuels, Human rights, Procurement
Speakers: Senator David Shoebridge, Hon Penny Wong, Michelle Chan, Senator Pauline Hanson, Craig Maclachlan, Caroline Linke, Dr Fiona Webster, Dr Ralph King, George Mina, Interjection, Ray Marcelo, Senator Dave Sharma, Senator Raff Ciccone, Speaker 43
>> Thank you. And forgive me for jumping around a little here. I just wanted to ask about um Greater Sunrise. Um, was was the department of the expecting or anticipating this decision by Woodside to um to sell or sell down its stake in the greater sunrise project? Was the department given a heads up or anything
like that? Uh, good afternoon, Senator Ray Marcelo, First Assistant Secretary, Southeast Asia Maritime Division. [clears throat] In terms of um, what we what we knew was that that Woodside was doing a strategic review of its global assets. And so, uh, we knew that they were discussing their ongoing interest in the Greater Sunrise project with, uh, team Estee, uh, including team- gap. And so uh it was a it's really a decision for them to make on the timing. So we knew that that was part of the greater sunrise was part of an overall global review.
>> Okay. And what's um what's your assessment of the viability of greater sunrise without Woodside?
>> It's really it's um not for me to really project that far ahead. It's because these projects are as you know very complex. They involve a whole lot of um decisions by commercial operators and so I'm reluctant to really make a make a an assessment about its viability. Greater Sunrise, sorry, Woodside in their statement did did say did comment about the quality of the asset. And so, um, on on their statement that they released when they made that decision, um, they did they did talk about the quality of the asset, but it's not really for me to really talk about its its viability. Is
it expected that east team or eststee will be seeking to find another foreign operator for this asset or
>> that's really for uh that's really for team or gap.
>> Have you had any bilateral has the government had any bilateral discussions with Tim or Lee about subsequent to Woodside's decision about finding another foreign operating partner?
>> No Senator the the announcement from Woodside was yesterday. So it's it's um it's we have not discussed this with team all this day.
>> All right. Thank you. That's all I had on on that.
>> Hang on. We need to add to that answer.
>> Sure.
>> Michelle Chan um deputy secretary South and Southeast Asia. Uh I just wanted to add to what Mr. Marcelo um has said. Obviously this is a um a project of this scale. It's a massive uh project. It's um it's a commercial decision as he said and a project such as this. It's a multi- uh billion dollar investment. So um it's not surprising that it has a a very long lead time uh often taking many years from uh discovery to production or first production. So it's not unusual uh in cases like this for there to be uh for those involved to you know look at um changes in their corporate strategy, their capital allocation or their risk appetite. Um it does not change the Australian government's uh very strong commitment to the development of the greater sunrise gas fields. We recognize the importance of this to um tim as was confirmed in um the uh pareria declaration between prime minister Albanese and president Gushmau in January. Um what is clear though is that um it's really for the um for the commercial partners for the Sunrise Joint Venture to bring forward a um a proposal that's technically feasible and commercially viable that that is for them to do um and that has yet to occur and the it needs to be of course consistent with the 2018 maritime boundary uh treaty between
>> the bilateral trade.
>> All right, thank you for that. Now I'll hand over to Senator Shoebridge and then Senator Hanson. Senator Shoebridge.
>> Oh, thanks, Chair. Um, Minister, I know you asked some questions earlier about imprisoned Australian pro-democracy activist Heap Heap Tran. Um, do you accept the position? >> I'm asking this um in directly um from representation from their
>> Do you have the family's consent to
>> This is from their legal representative.
these this is the third time we've done this today and I'm happy to do it again.
do do you accept that the message that was passed on um uh from Australian officials to his wife. Um hi, how are you all going? I want you to know that I never entered Vietnam on my own. Do you accept that supports what is now a growing body of evidence that Mr. Tran was actually abducted from Cambodia? Do you accept that as a position?
>> Senator uh Fiona Webster, acting um
deputy secretary international security legal and consular group. As my colleague Miss McGregor said earlier, we're deeply concerned at Mr. trans report that he was abduct abducted in
>> Have you reviewed what I understand is now um evidence from five independent witnesses that confirm the abduction. Have you have you reviewed that evidence?
>> We are aware of the evidence, but we
perhaps one of the most serious things that could happen to an Australian citizen to be taken from a third country against their will and to be held in detention. And I understand um, he's now in the B34 detention center in Ho Chi Min City. Um, I would assume that in those circumstances, the ambassador would have been called in, the Vietnamese ambassador would have been called in to have a direct explanation to the foreign minister. Has that happened, foreign minister?
>> Well, Senator, can I first say, and I really would encourage you to do this when we deal with these [clears throat] uh it is about the interests of the Australian citizen. That is how I approach these matters and I would urge you to do the same.
>> I do.
>> And and well,
>> I do.
willing to um uh deal with those circumstances, I'll provide one uh provided the family give consent and the
family have to give consent. the next of Kim. That's the first point. So, I'd really encourage you to bear that in mind. Secondly, I will say we will say what we said before. We take seriously any allegation uh that an Australian may have been
against their will. Uh and as Dr. Webster has said and as Miss Greger has
said in response to a number of questions, I think this is the third or
>> The family have asked me to ask you here what will you call in the Vietnamese ambassador and will you seek a direct explanation onetoone between you and the Vietnamese ambassador? That's the that seems the minimum that you would expect and it would it would match the statement that we got from Miss Webster that the government treats this with the utmost seriousness for you to have that direct direct request to the ambassador to come in and provide an explanation. And I don't understand the resistance to you doing that.
I'd really encourage you not to. This is an Australian citizen and that is not the request that has been what you the request you have just asserted to me is not the request that has been put to me by the family. All right? So I hope you are correct. Uh but what I would say is Miss Chun can explain to you uh what has happened in relation to the ambassador and I can indicate to you that I have raised Mr. Trans case directly with my
U Michelle Tran, Deputy Secretary of South and Southeast Asia Group. Um we have raised our deep concerns about Mr. Tran's um uh well-being, welfare uh numerous times. Um I think under um in Cambodia, in Vietnam, and here in Canberra, um we have made over 50 representations.
>> how many? Sorry, Miss Chen.
>> Over 50. And um that includes at senior levels as uh minister Wong said uh it includes uh min the minister speaking directly to her uh being in touch with her
I still do not understand why in a situation like this where there is a significant body of independent evidence that an Australian citizen was abducted from a third country by another country where you have the evidence that had been given to Australian officials that I read earlier um, and has been passed to Mr. Mr. transwife that seems to confirm that I am still at a loss to why in these circumstances you resist calling in the Vietnamese ambassador and you haven't called in the res Vietnamese ambassador to first of all make Australia's objections and concerns 100% clear and secondly seek a formal explanation from Vietnam Vietnam's representative in Australia as to this matter. That is the purpose of an ambassador. Why won't you do that?
>> Senator, we have raised this. Our ambassador in Hanoi has raised this and I have raised this uh myself with um the Vietnamese ambassador in CRA um a number
of times already. Well, yes, Miss Chan, I appreciate Miss Chan raising it, but I've got to say, >> as as much respect as I have for Miss >> this is a moment for a foreign minister to step to step up and make it clear why you're not listening to what I'm saying.
>> I've given you a very clear caution, but you are more interested in getting up a social media grab than on helping
Mr. Tran. That is offensive and wrong >> and and I am I am really disappointed. I am disappointed by this. >> I am disappointed by your questioning. I
will give you a private briefing. I have not I have raised it at a ministerial level. That is more senior than an ambassador. So that is the answer to your question. Uh if you obtain privacy consent from the family, I'm happy to
the very simple question I have asked is about why the ambassador who is barely a few kilometers from here >> who is the senior representative who is the senior representative of Vietnam. Why you haven't done the most obvious thing? You have answered that to seek a direct explanation. You have not answered that question. You have
avoided that question. I have answered
raised between ministers which is a more spoken with [clears throat] by Miss Chan and I have indicated to you that this is a very sensitive matter and my sole focus will be the interests of the Australian citizen. If you obtain private consent, privacy consent for the family, I will brief you. I'm not discussing this any further in this
covenant on civil and political rights protects the right to liberty and security of person the person and
have a lawful basis and follow proper
position. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Minister, you're aware of the 900 Australian donated wheelchairs um that have
groups, please?
>> Yes.
>> If I could have Middle East, please. And
used to you being on the other side, Mr. Minister, I know you're aware of the 900 wheelchairs donated by Australians for the purpose of um providing some kind of respite to some of the many thousands of children in Gaza who have lost limbs or been paralyzed or suffered horrific injuries as a result of Israel's genocide. Some of those wheelchairs have been sitting in storage in Jordan for almost two years because Israel is refusing to allow them to be passed through into Gaza is my understanding. Minister, did you discuss this with the king of Jordan when he was here? Did you
>> Uh first uh I would say that Australia with others continues to call for and has been part of international pressure to allow humanitarian aid to flow unhindered into Gaza. Uh and I say again that Israel must comply with its obligation under international law, including the binding orders of the International Court of Justice to provide medical supplies to Palestinians throughout Gaza. Uh we have worked very closely with Jordan uh in relation to uh providing uh what uh humanitarian and medical assistance that we could uh that uh is possible uh and also through international uh partners, international agencies. Uh I'm very aware of um the one component of that assistance which or one part of that assistance which is of course the wheelchairs for injured children which have so been generously been donated by Australian organizations and I have discussed this uh with Aean Safadi my um ministerial counterpart. Um uh we spoke not only about these issues but more broadly about what more could be done because the flow of humanitarian assistance into Gaza is insufficient. Uh and uh uh I have asked uh DEFAT officials to engage with the Jordanians on this. I've also asked DEFAT to again engage with the Israeli authorities to see what more can be done on this issue.
Um, m Dr. King, before you answer, I might just give some additional context and maybe you can address it in in in a single if it's convenient because it's it's not just the 900 wheelchairs that are sitting in Jordan. significant other medical equipment that's been arranged by uh PANSMA, the Palestinian Australian New Zealand Medical Association is also being held in Jordan, I think by the Jordan Hashemite Charity Organization that there's this buildup of medical and other supplies coming from Australia to go and alleviate the appalling suffering in Gaza. It's sitting there in Jordan
>> from not just from Australia.
>> Well, indeed, not just from Australia. And yet we have the Israeli authorities refusing to provide any solution to transit. And and it's not just wheelchairs and other medical equipment. They are even declaring that that medical gauze for dressings is a dual purpose good and refusing to let that in too. What what is what do you understand is happening at least between an official and official level between Australia and Israel given their appalling decisions here? Well, I just
echo um Ralph King, First Assistant Secretary, Middle East Africa Division. Senator, I just echo what the uh Senator Wong said that we have raised this with the Jordanian government. We've raised this with the Israeli government. As you know, there's a broader question here of insufficient humanitarian assistance getting through, which we have continuously pressed at all levels, including most recently this week and abroad. But in a specific sense, I'm aware of these the blocked wheelchairs. I wasn't aware of other materials, but we are in touch with Panzma on this. Um, we will continue to press work with the Jordanian governments and press the Israelis on this. We having spoken to Panma and having also spoken um to the Israelis, I think we may have some creative solution to this. But I will remain in touch with Panzma as indeed will like Malai colleagues uh to get the wheelchairs released. And
>> Dr. King, what do Israeli officials say when you make I assume the most obvious humanitarian position and consistent with international law that we've got 900 wheelchairs here for kids that have had their limbs blown off, that are paralyzed, that have no other support. What what what are the Israeli officials saying as their reason why they won't let these 900 donated wheelchairs find their way into Gaza? What are they
>> I'll need to check on the specifics of the wheelchairs, but as you know, as you said before, there are many items which are classified as dual use. Um some medical supplies. I'm not sure whether the wheelchairs specifically are classified as such, but yes, there is a blockage of medical supplies and other humanitarian assistance generally. and
and minister, we spoke about sanctions earlier and sanctions um about illegal settlements, but at what point do you in the face of these sorts of decisions, not letting medical go in to to Gaza, not letting the wheelchairs across into Gaza, um flouting international law, ignoring the representations that we make, at at what point do you escalate broader sanctions against Israel because of what they're doing here? Kids without limbs can't get wheelchairs. People who have had horrific injuries can't even get gors to treat it. At what point do you say, "Well, actually, now we're going to lift the sanctions. Now we're going to raise the sanctions." Not lift the sanctions, raise them, make them harsher and clearer.
Um, Senator, first I think you well um the prime minister and I have made very clear uh that Israel has responsibility for the catastrophic situation in Gaza. Uh, and they will be judged by the intern they are being judged by the international community and they will be judged by the international court of Well, what what we have done uh is to work with others uh both in international fora in ter statements that have been have been made uh the recognition of Palestine uh and we have imposed sanctions. Um, but what we all want is for Israel uh and there is a [clears throat] change of government or a new Israeli government, a new Netanyahu government or a new an Israeli government, what we would say is you have an obligation uh to ensure aid enters Gaza at scale.
>> Um, I have I I see the time and I know we're due to go to afternoon tea. Um, I I have a a series of questions here about Myanmar, but I might try and make it brief. So, whichever the appropriate and as they come forward, I might just Minister, I've had multiple representations to to my office from the Australian Myanmar community. They are in deep distress about the continued military attacks against um uh uh a range of peoples across Myanmar. the use of uh fighter jets for the bombing, the inability, it seems, of the international community to get the sanctions um to to actually prevent the flow of fighter of of jet fuel into Myanmar. Minister, are is Australia making any efforts to work with countries in the region to prevent the flow of jet fuel
Caroline Winky, acting first assistant secretary, Southeast Asia Regional and Mainland Division. >> Uh, since the military coup in your
please.
>> Yep. I think you need to be a bit closer to the microphone.
>> No, that's all right. We're just getting
turned up. >> I don't think it was.
>> They're all a little bit soft. Off you go.
>> Is that better? >> Much better. Uh since the military coup in February 2021, Australia has imposed sanctions on 21 individuals and seven entities in Myanmar to target those leaders responsible for deposing democratically elected leaders and for repression and violence toward the people of Myanmar and to limit the Miami military's access to funds and military material. In relation to jet fuel in particular, we will weigh a range of considerations when deciding to impose sanctions. They are one tool at our disposal, but rarely our first choice. And depending on the circumstances, other responses may be more appropriate or effective to address a situation of concern. We keep our sanctions towards Mayama under regular review and we do not speculate about potential sanctions
Minister, the Myanmar Australian community and it's matched by calls from um the various um communities and groups that are under attack for by the Myanmar government all across the country. Their call has been almost universal. Can can the world prevent jet fuel finding its way to Myanmar? because the the government is using their jets to bomb and kill at a scale that is truly horrific. Will Australia work with Azan and other countries to to put the sanctions in to stop that happening?
perhaps the officer who could help me with our sanctions could come forward. I would also note that one of one of Myanmar's biggest arms suppliers is Russia, Senator Shoebridge.
>> Well, indeed. So, we should stop giving money to Russia by buying Russian oil.
>> Uh, you know, I'm really very happy to have a discussion with you on Russian, change, >> upturning of Green's policy to abandon
Ukraine. You can abandon falsely make those positions and if you want You're you're a foreign minister. You're meant to be based upon uh make your statements based upon evidence. That statement is false.
Members had said you
>> it's misleading. You know, it's false and misleading and it undermines my my confidence in any of the undermine. It undermines my confidence. People's confidence position. If you're stand your comments earlier about not being political or condescending comments and then you go and make a false statement like that, it does you no credit.
point is you can't be anti-Russia or pro-Russia in one context.
>> I am not being Russia and you are deliberately Russia offensively making that statement. It's your government that allows billions of dollars of Russian oil to come into this country to be paid for. You are the government that allows billions of dollars of Russian oil to come into this country to feed the Russian war machine. You know this is true. You refuse to put in the same sanctions that the European Union put
in. We'll just cut off the broadcast. You refuse cut off the Okay. Like you
>> you have to accept responsibility for the change in Greens policy that you've
undertaken. You have to accept responsibility for refusing to stop Russian oil coming to Australia and feeding the Russian war machine >> in the billions of dollars and you refuse to stop that.
>> No matter how much you talk about that, everyone knows what you're doing,
Senator.
>> Everyone knows what you're doing. >> Secretary, did you appro Mr. Now,
perhaps you could answer my question.
>> All right. No, no, no, no, no. You don't have the call, Senator. Senator, you don't have the call enough. Senator, >> now Secretary, would you like to add something or deputy secretary?
>> Yes. Uh Senator, could I just add that um over two and a half years ago on the 1st of February 2024, the government um imposed uh targeted sanctions on five entities to limit the Myamma regime's access to funds for arms and for jet fuel specifically. So that was two regime controlled banks that enable the purchase of arms and material. uh the Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank and the Myanmar Investment and Commercial Bank and three Myanmar based companies that provide jet fuel to the Myanmar Military. Um the Asia Sun Group, Asia Sun Trading Company Limited, and Cargo Link Petroleum Company Limited.
>> Now, Miss Chan, my my question
>> Hang on, hang on, hang on. Just let the official finish first.
>> Finished. I was uh just going to add that um if you're looking at the um how effective sanctions are um I guess it's quite complex. There's no really straightforward way to evaluate how effective they are. Um and the complexity of them means that it does take time uh to actually see um how that flows through. But um uh we took that decision two and a half years ago.
>> Russia applies no sanctions on their in fact continues to supply them as do other countries. So whatever the political argument you may wish to have about Australian sanctions, the fundamental issue here is that >> uh the flow of arms and fuel continues.
>> Yeah. Which is why I was asking, are you working with Azan partners in order to provide the greatest possible consistency to prevent uh jet fuel flowing into Myanmar? Is this something that Australia is working with Azan partners? It seems consistent with the agreed five-point consensus um that that I know the Myanmar Australian community are seeking Australia do everything to uphold. Is this something that Australia is working collectively with Azan on?
>> Well, Senator, um I'm told at a recent Parliament House gathering you talked about Australia um making Azan do what we want. No, I'm I I what I'd say to you is
>> I simply didn't. I don't.
>> Okay. Well, that's what that's what
>> you can't help yourself, can you? I'm
saying just can I finish help you, sir? >> Um what you can't >> if if that is your position. I accept if it's not I accept if it's not. I'm just I accept if it's not. >> But um if if if that what >> I beg your pardon.
>> You demean the position when you do that. You demean the position of foreign foreign minister. Each time you do this,
>> Why are you actually attacking me?
>> You make a false assertion about me.
Senator,
>> you make a false assertion about me. I correct you.
>> No, you're shouting at me. >> I am not shouting at you. Listen, I am
order. Now, Senators, listen. If you two aren't going to just keep quiet for a moment, I will have to stop proceedings and I don't really want to do that because Senator Hanson is trying to get
to her questions, too. But Senator, >> be very quick. Senator, I said if that was what not what you said, I accept it. You didn't listen.
>> All right,
>> that's what I said. >> Um, we do not tell Azan what to do. >> Um, we we are we respect that Azan we are not members of Azan. We are the first dialogue partner, a fact of which we are very proud. Uh, uh, and we respect Azan's centrality, Azan processes. Of course, we put a view uh and and we will express our view um to individual AAN countries [clears throat] uh and we have a regular we have regular engagement with Azan as >> as entity but ultimately um the the progress of the fivepoint consensus and how Azan chooses to deal with what I think we all agree is a lack of progress on on uh towards peace and democracy. Y in Myanmar is ultimately will be an Azanled um approach.
>> Um well, Minister, Mr. I I listened carefully to Miss Chan's statement about sanctions, but of course the Myanmar military government has removed the civilianapp appointed leadership of the Myanmar central bank and I think they did it four years ago and they sentenced the deputy Bob to 20 years on a politically motivated corruption charge and they then appointed several military ga members to ensure they have complete control of the Myanmar central bank. So why has the Australian government put sanctions on the Myanmar foreign trade bank, the Myanmar Investment and Commercial Bank as described by Miss Jan and not on the Myanmar Central Bank? That would cut off a far larger share of the regime's revenue and foreign currency access than the two banks already sanctioned. >> Senator,
um uh a that the the formal answer is we don't speculate on sanctions and I note you didn't include the jet fuel companies that we have also sanctioned um but uh the answer I have actually goes back to what I said to you before I'm going to try not to get get into an escalation with you. um whatever you urge us to do will have no effect whatsoever other countries including Russia continue to supply oil fuel uh and and military equipment. So you you can have an argument about whether Australian sanctions are sufficient. Uh but the the facts are there are far larger economies providing support to the junat. It is not you know not what we do. We have a very different approach. Uh and so an argument about Australian sanctions is actually not the central issue if you want to talk about how to deal with uh trying to prevent the Juna from doing what it is doing in relation to its people. What I would also say is one of the things I have sought to do since becoming foreign minister and through this period is to ensure we had official level and ministerial level um engagement uh uh with um whilst we recognize states not governments uh with the NU uh and I met uh I think it was last month with the NU foreign minister or the foreign representative.
>> Okay,
>> I know the time.
>> Thanks. All right. Thanks, Senator Shoebridge. Thank you, Minister Wong. Now, Senator Hanson, hello.
is regards to Australian embassies and the security that it's provided to them around the world. Um, MC's, commission, consulates, official residences. Now, on the weekend when I attended the veteran games, I was approached by veterans. And I'll preface this to explain where I'm coming from. In 2015, DEFAT awarded a three-year contract um of 72.3 million contract for security at the Australian Embassy in Kabul to Agus Defense Services and its parent company Garter World replacing Hart Security Australia. Contemporary reporting stated that Hart employed about 120 Australian operators, many with former special forces or infantry experience and had recorded no serious incident during the 5-year contract. And I understand that was under the previous government. What I want uh what I would like to know yeah if there are any Australian companies now that are employed to not only for Kabul but any embassies or consulates or any thing around the world does def currently include any requirement preference or evaluation waiting in embassy security tenders for the employment of Australian citizens or permanent residents.
Uh, good afternoon, Senator Craig McLolin, Deputy Secretary and Chief Operating Officer. Thanks for your Our arrangements, our contracting for security at embassies are governed by normal uh, government Commonwealth procurement rules. There would be open tender processes. Normally, we have different arrangements at different embassies depending on the security requirements that we need in those locations. locations like Kev, like Baghdad would be a higher level for obvious reasons than say uh an embassy in the US. Um those normal procurement rules uh would apply. They're open tender. They'll be evaluated on the conditions that apply including value for money, the ability to to deliver the service. We may look at uh whether or not they're an Australian company, but that is not the only factor that we would take into consideration. whether they can do the job at an affordable price that achieves value for money for the Australian taxpayer.
>> What's the current cost of um the security now?
>> Uh unless you take I have to take that on notice. I'm sorry. Senator, >> if she's talking about Kabul, of course, we're not in >> Sorry. Sorry. I >> You mean in general, Senator, or
>> Yeah, it is. Well, I gave you a figure for a three-year contract was 72.3
million. in we we are no longer present in
>> we're no longer in Kabul.
>> I know but that was a contract at that time. What I'm saying is can you actually um tell tell me >> what are we looking at for for security >> so is there a separate price for for whichever embassy is?
>> Yeah, sorry. And I we we will take it on notice, Senator Hanson, and we will try to assist. But I just wanted to make sure that um I made this point. The the security requirements of the Kabul embassy were um obviously extremely high compared to uh most of our posts. >> Uh and uh so therefore obviously the costs of that would be very high. So it would not be right to look at quantum so the amount um as then as to now to say there's somehow been a reduction in security for DEFAT person and Australian personnel because you know you provide security based on risk assessment and threat level and so forth. So that was a particular um almost unique situation us being in in Kabal. Would that >> I probably said it clumsily but and officials can fix it up if possible but that I just wanted to be clear about.
>> No I look I understand that um >> I I did go to Kabul so I' I've got a clear understanding of the security risk there. >> So you actually had a company there that was Australianowned and doing the work there. no serious incident reported in the 5-year contract, 120 Australian operators. You decided to actually replace them with a with a um this other um agus defense services and garter world.
>> Yes.
>> For what reason? Was it because of the price?
>> No, I I I don't Firstly, we're not operating in Kabul. that contract you refer to as I understand it from your question applied to the operation in Kabul. We are no longer there. >> We would look at certain uh whatever our requirements are in each location >> uh in in Baghdad for example where we do have contracting uh services in place. Um uh and as I say in other locations we we have different arrangements because we have different requirements. It is as the minister said, we make judgments based on our operating environment, the footprint that's there. We look at the physical security that's offered by the the infrastructure that we have, the uh security that's offered by the hosting country and we make judgments about what additional levels we need to put around and hasten to it. Physical security in that sense is only part of the the the sort of equation if you like that we work through to provide security firstly and foremost to our personnel to our assets and to our information which encompass other aspects too.
>> Last question is there any Australian company that we do employ for security
uh Simon Johnstone uh first assistant secretary uh diplomatic security division and chief security officer. Um so there are there are two uh locations where we have contracted uh security at at the scale um similar to um what we had in Kabal and that is Baghdad and Kiev currently. Um controlled risks provide that current contract. Um they are also teamed though with an Australian company um that u supports that contract um and is the Australian element of of that contracting capability.
>> All right. Thank you very much. Thank
>> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks, Senator Hanson. Yeah, everyone. I've got some good news. The non-trade folks, you can go home because we're going to break now and we'll come back in 15 minutes with the nontrade portfolio. And just so everyone knows, I know the secretary is trying to pass me a note here, but the Australian Center for International Agriculture Research, you've also been released. >> So, excused. >> Excused, released. Um, I did I thought I did before, but >> I was told maybe I didn't do it properly, but I'm just doing it again. >> You can go home. >> Thank you, Chair. >> On that note, um, good night everyone, and we'll have the trade portfolio with Minister Farrell uh, after our 15minute Okay. Well, good evening everyone.