Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 6:38:30 to 7:05:03
Questioning covers a limited tender for a Pacific climate documentary and Australia's diplomatic outreach regarding Chinese infrastructure in Antarctica.
Topics: Procurement, COP31, National security
Speakers: Senator Jessica Collins, Elizabeth Peak, Senator Dave Sharma, Will Nankervis, Adam McCarthy, Hon Penny Wong, Julie Heckscher, Mark Tattersall, Senator Raff Ciccone, Speaker 34, Speaker 39
Thanks, Chair. Good afternoon. I had a question about um a contract that was awarded to Wild Pacific Media to make a documentary. I've got the contract number here if uh that's helpful. It's um >> CN424 Um, Mr. Nervvis, I should direct my question to you. Can you tell me what
>> Certainly, Senator Will Nan Kervis, Ambassador for Climate Change. Uh, that contract is for the production of a documentary. Senator uh while Pacific Media has been contracted to deliver a fulllength feature documentary and a range of other products uh and the distribution global distribution of those products that go to Pacific climate leadership. Um so that this is this is part of the COP 31 partnership that Australia has with the Pacific. Um the minister spoke this morning about our objectives under this COP 31 partnership of amplifying Pacific voices, sharing Pacific stories, experiences and leadership with the world. Uh the Pacific preop was was part of that senator um bringing leaders and ministers to the to the Pacific to see firsthand for example uh impacts in in Tuvallu. uh uh but obviously that can only reach a certain audience. This is taking another uh addressing that that problem or taking forward that objective through another means which is the production of a of a documentary.
>> Has it been produced yet the documentary?
>> It's in production senator.
>> Okay. When do you expect it to be?
>> It will be launched at at COP 31
>> in Antalya. Okay. And what's the value
of the contract? >> A short uh version was screened at preop uh in in um in Fiji, Senator.
>> Okay. And what's the value of the contract?
>> The value of the contract is around $2.7 million, Senator, exclusive of GST.
>> Okay. Yeah, I sort of sort of figured 2.99 million, but that must be
>> including GST.
>> Um Okay. And it was conducted under a limited tender when for reasons of extreme urgency brought about by events unforeseen the goods and services could not be obtained in time under open tender. So what were the reasons of extreme urgency here brought about by
relates to the launch. So the launch will take place at COP 31 in Antalya um which is in in about two weeks time. So in order to have a full feature length documentary prepared in that in that time uh the contractor has to conduct a range of interviews uh and so on right across the Pacific because again this comes back to amplifying Pacific voices. Uh so the time frame was launch in Antalya. Obviously we have a particular opportunity under the COP 31 partnership and our partnership with with Tier uh to really amplify Pacific voices in Antalya.
>> Yeah. I'm just not clear what the event was that was unforeseen though because the date of the copy in Antalya was known has been known for some time.
>> Well well Senator the the partnership uh with with Turkey uh you'll recall was something that was worked on for a while. Australia had a a candidacy to host COP 31. Uh that was resolved at the end of the year last year. Uh and then uh after that those arrangements were put in place of course again it goes back to the objective uh which was amplifying Pacific voices. So when indeed the COP 31 wasn't being hosted uh in Australia we had this arrangement with Turkey with a preop in the in the Pacific. Uh we thought then about how how else we could take forward that objective of amplifying Pacific voices.
>> um, how long is this the full length documentary likely to be? I mean, what's the what's the production brief?
>> It's just over 70 minutes, Senator. Somewhere between 70 and 75 minutes.
>> Okay. And the shorter version you mentioned that was aired at
>> there's a 10-minute version, Senator.
>> Is that publicly available?
>> None of it's publicly available yet, Senator, but but I expect it will be. This this will go out to public release. The 10 the idea of the 10-minute version is to play that to world leaders in Antalya. uh we we will have fewer world leaders who are able to sit down for a full featurelength documentary understood but a 10-minute version and then a three-minute version which which was played >> as I mentioned in in pre-op in in Fiji and we've had very positive feedback from our Pacific partners on that uh on that screening and the impact that that screening had uh in terms of that objective of of really the world hearing seeing firsthand seeing through this medium the impacts of climate in the Pacific but not just climate vulnerability but climate adaptation, climate resilience and climate leadership of the Pacific.
>> Okay. Thanks Mr. Nervvis. Um just in the interest of time I might move on to another topic. I wanted to ask about um development assistance to the Solomon Islands in particular some um recent media reporting about um assistance to Solomon Islands constituent development funding or electoral assistance So, I've um I saw the media reporting about a proposal for Australian Development Assistance to be provided to Solomon Islands members of Parliament for electoral projects. It was in the ABC last month. Are you able to comment on the accuracy of those media reports and what the status is of that particular line of development assistance?
>> Uh good afternoon, Senator Elizabeth Peak, head of the Office of the Pacific. Uh Senator, we're aware of those media reports. uh a and they referred to uh a a text message from our high commissioner Jeff Roach. Um of course it's no surprise that our high commissioner uh in the Solomon Islands as uh our high commissioners all around the Pacific are in direct touch with uh politicians and parliamentarians in in their country. I can't comment on the detail of those of that uh content. It's um of course uh diplomatic communications and we would not comment on those.
>> Okay. Has an agreement been reached though to provide the assistance that's outlined in Mr. Roach's text messages?
>> Uh Senator, this is in the context of our ongoing negotiations on the comprehensive treaty that was, you know, agreed by Prime Minister Wle and Prime Minister Albenezy just before our last Senate estimates. uh as you would appreciate, I can't comment on the content of negotiations until uh they come to a conclusion and they are publicly released.
>> So, this hasn't been finalized. That's what I'm trying to get to. If it's if it's subject to negotiation, I understand you can't confirm the detail. I just wanted to confirm that this hasn't been finalized. This is not
>> We'll be able to provide you advice once the uh once the negotiations are finalized and and subject to public release.
>> Okay. All right. Um thank you. I had nothing further on that. I did have a the Nakamal pact. So that might be you >> Yes. So I believe when we concluded that that there was a joint statement that um that we expected the as part of that agreement that we expected the Chinese police presence in Vanuatu would phase down over time. Is that >> am I reading that correctly?
>> Uh just a slight clarification senator. Uh so at the time we signed uh prime minister and prime minister Napat signed on on the 29th of June uh at that point the uh treaty itself was released. As part of that, the Nakamal committee uh was articulated in the treaty as a way for us to progress implementation in uh on the content of the treaty, decide priorities as well as uh the way that we do that in a in a way that um promotes open discussion and and consensus. uh notwithstanding the fact that uh the treaty is not yet in force uh both sides have a you know genuine commitment to to progressing implementation and starting to flesh out where we will put our efforts. Um on the 15th of October the Nakamal Nakamal committee the inaugural Nakamal committee was convened and that was led on our side by the foreign minister and Minister Conroy and uh on the Vanuatu side by deputy prime minister. Uh a joint statement was issued in relation uh to that. So I think that's the one that's the one you're referring to. Uh and in that uh there was um a a a number of elements and and it it included areas that we would uh work towards and uh yes the expectation as articulated there uh between the governments is that um as mentioned in the treaty Australia uh is the primary policing partner and our expectation is that arrangements with with other parties uh uh would reduce over time and it the Vanuatu government that are that uh gave us the reassurance that uh that arrangements were timelmited and would reduce over time.
>> Yeah. So this the part I have in that it's a joint statement um it says that Vanowat who said it police arrangement with China had been in place for some time is time limited and expected to reduce over time whereas the Nakamala agreement is legally binding and has no expiry date
>> and that was no surprise to us. We've been aware of arrangements uh being in place since since 2014.
>> Okay.
>> And uh as as Minister Conroy said uh when he answered media on this issue that that it was no surprise to us and uh that again underlines the importance of the Nakamal agreement. uh the provisions that that uh particularly the ones that give us assurance that there will be no foreign military bases that there will be no militarization of of critical infrastructure and that Pacific Island forum members would be prioritized for security uh cooperation.
>> Okay. I I just I just there was a news report quoting Vanuatu's internal affairs minister uh early this week I think saying that there was no plans to reduce China's police presence in Vanuatu. So I'm just wondering has our the understanding we reached in October is that still current as we understand it or have things
changed? What I can say senator is that the joint statement was agreed by both the Vanuatu government and Australian government. That joint statement is is released publicly on the DEFAT website as well as the prime minister's uh website in in Vanuatu.
>> But okay, but have we sought clarification or explanation for this apparently contradictory statement from the Vanuatu internal affairs minister? Are you aware of the statement or post
aware of the statement, Senator. Uh we have that agreement with the government of Anuata and it was issued in a joint statement and I think questions in terms of uh uh minister Napoat's statement should be directed uh to him and is a matter for the government of Vanatu.
>> I know my my question is to defat though and it's have you sought clarification or explanation of that statement?
>> Uh yes we have.
>> chair. Um, happy to share. >> Hang on, David. Senator Collins,
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, I'm I'm also going to jump through a few topics quite quickly just in the interest of time. I just wanted to follow up on there was reporting on uh the Taiwanese uh government official, the deputy foreign minister Changeng Minqing that Mingchi uh that indicated uh intention to or proposal to open a Perth trade office. Is can anybody comment on that? So, you have a proposal for a trade office in Perth for
>> Senator? Thank you. U Michael Growder, first assistant secretary, East Asia Division. Um Australia would consider any requests of this nature if they were made in accordance with our national interest. Under Australia's one China policy, we have a strong and productive unofficial relationship with Taiwan. And it's appropriate for Australia to advance this unofficial engagement through the Taipei Economic and Cultural Offices already in Australia. That's in CRA, Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane in accordance with our one China policy.
>> Okay. So there there are consulates in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney. Correct. Oh no, Brisbane. Canra,
>> CRA, Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney. Not consulates, Taipei. Economic and
>> Both of them. Okay. Uh, and so what about the proposal to open a new trade office in Perth? You saying that that's not going to be accepted? Has the proposal been submitted to DEFAT?
>> All I would say, Senator, again, is that we would consider any requests of this nature if they were made in accordance with our national interest?
>> Okay. So, so the it has been made.
>> I wouldn't propose to comment any
has it been rejected? Has there been any
senator? We we we have no further comment to make on on that topic. Okay.
All right. I would then like to ask about the Antarctic treaty, please, and an ARC grant related to it. So, I'm I'm just wondering, we have a Mr. McCarthy, are you from the um the Antarctic and Arctic Geostrategic
>> Uh uh Senator, I'm the um uh first assistant secretary uh who who that section is in within my division.
>> Okay. All right. I'm I'm just trying to understand and I'm going to zoom through this quite quickly, but we do have a um there is a research grant that's been awarded to Professor Jeffrey McGee at the University of Tasmania for $1.2 $2 million that's working on um a project securing Antarctic governance in an era of climate and geopolitical change. Uh and it's to do with the anarctic the Australian Antarctic strategy in a 20-year action plan. And I'm just wondering uh whether that's also the work that the section that you oversee
Senator, the actual program itself is, uh, administered by the Australian Antarctic Division, uh, within the Department of Environment and Climate Change. Professor McKee would be, I think, regarded as certainly one of Australia's, uh, preeminent uh, Antarctic experts and indeed, you know, probably one of the world's pre-minent Antarctic experts. But uh so he's certainly got very well credentialed in the field but in terms of specific questions you'd have to go to the Australian Antarctic Division.
>> Yeah. Okay. But I'm just trying to understand what the in-house capability is here for the the strategy work that we're doing for Antarctica. Um how many staff do you have in that particular team?
>> Certainly. Um uh that team consists of one director uh and five officers. >> Okay. And it's considerably expanded over the last couple of years.
>> Uh from from what?
>> Well, when I first started in uh this job, which was in 2021, uh we didn't even have a dedicated Antarctic section. Uh there was uh the levels uh may escape some people, but there was an AS6 uh and a graduate trainee. That was in October 2021. uh we established a standalone Antarctic section in early 2023 uh and that section's been growing uh consistently uh since then as if you like the focus on the geostrategic challenges in Antarctica uh has grown as a significant part of our work.
>> Understood. Um, and I understand the significant experience of Professor McKee. Uh, but just in relation to the discussions that we're having before about uh the foreign relations scheme, is it a concern for DEFAT that the University of Tasmania, which is doing this sensitive Antarctic project, also operates a joint masters program with the Ocean University of China, which the US Department of War has placed on a banned entity list because of its links
to the PLA Navy. Uh, Senator, that's not a question for us. You'd have to direct that in the first instance to the Australian Antarctic Division and probably to the University of Tasmania.
Okay, Minister, I might direct that one to you given our discussions before about the foreign relations scheme. Would you like me to repeat it or we're just talking about the Antarctic research project and the the strategy, the 1.2 $.2 million um project that [clears throat] has been conducted at the University of Tasmania. Uh and I was just wondering whether it's concerned that the University of Tasmania has been awarded this Antarctic project which also um operates a joint masters program with the Ocean University of China which the US Department of War has placed on a band entity list because of its links to the PLA Navy.
>> Thank you. I think Miss Hera has some
>> Uh thank you Julie Hetra. um uh on I don't have information about the very specific uh arrangement that you've mentioned, but I can talk to you about the University of Tasmania and Antarctic collaboration generally.
>> Oh, that's okay. I I I would love to hear about it, but we are just so short on time. I recognize that the Greens also have questions before. I mean, I
can reassure you that we talk regularly with the University of Tasmania and ensure that and it ensures that it actually has uh careful due diligence and controls in place to manage its uh sensitive research engagement including with Chinese institutions.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um I I just wanted to ask about uh Yong Shan, the the Chinese Antarctic base. Uh there's an accompanying airfield in a Australian Antarctic territory. Um is anybody aware
>> Senator, I can take that question.
>> Okay, thank you. So, it's about 109 kmters from Australia's Davis base. Um, in 2024, the UN Aviation Agency gave that airfield the International Civil Aviation Organization Code ZSSW.
of those details about its air uh uh permit, but I'm familiar with the base and uh the general line of the question that you're asking.
>> Okay. Um it's been reported that China has assumed airspace management around uh Yong Shan. Is that correct?
>> Oh. Uh Senator, that would be a question operationally for the Australian Antarctic Division.
>> there are but this is about the um diplomatic part. There are two more runways in our Antarctic territory. Has DEFAT reached out diplomatically to China about these insertions on our territory in
>> Well, I would not characterize them as insertions. Senator, under the Antarctic Treaty, um Antarctic Treaty parties which include Australia, uh also China and 27 other countries, uh commit to certain undertakings. Most importantly, uh article one, which is the non-militarization objective. Uh so that is the peaceful uses objective. Article four, which uh if you like freezes and preserves the claimment system, including our claim for 42% uh of the continent in the Australian Antarctic Territory uh and article 7 uh which allows for the inspections regime uh with respect to Antarctic bases. Uh it's a deal. It's a compromise and provided uh any country uh any one of the treaty parties complies with the obligations of the treaty uh we recognize we all recognize any Antarctic uh uh treaty party's right to establish uh stations where uh it so wants to do. uh and that was the nature of the original if you like deal that was struck between the United States and the then Soviet Union uh many many years ago and it still applies. So we call on all Antarctic treaty parties uh to comply with their obligations including most significantly article one which as I said is a non-militarization peaceful uses. Beyond that we recognize that the treaty provides a right for any treaty party to establish a station.
>> Thank you. And just in relation to article one is DEFAT aware that of the reporting that PLA military personnel
Senator, we're aware of lots of things.
>> Thank you. And just just one more very quick question on the NRL expansion and So just um with the Pacific Rugby League World Cup teams, there's there's an overwhelming majority of players that come from Australia and New Zealand that play in the Samoa Tonga Fiji teams. Uh on the flip side of that with the Pacific Rugby Union teams, most of them come through from in country. Uh so I was just wondering if we can have an update please on the progress towards securing Australian government funding for the VA Moana Rugby Partnership. Um but also given the significant investment rugby league, I just want to make sure that we are advancing both sports equally uh and especially for the national support. So, we're developing worldclass players that come from in the islands uh and strengthening the local institutions
microphone's not working. Get the microphone working. >> There we go.
>> Mark Tatisol, first assistant secretary, Polynesia Micronia and Development Division. Um, thanks for your ongoing interest uh in this topic. Um, as we discussed last time, we've received uh the the VMAN partnership proposal that was developed by Rugby Australia and has the endorsement of the the three relevant governments. We've been in discussions with each of those governments and Rugby Rugby Australia during the intervening period. Um uh you may have seen under the Valale Union uh with Fiji there is a commitment to uh to sport um under that framework. Uh we're continuing discussions with the government uh there about the exact constituent nature of that funding and the proportion of that that will be directed to rugby. We haven't reached conclusion in those discussions yet. Um, as Miss Peak uh mentioned earlier, we're also in discussions with uh the government of Tonga under the Kame Offi framework. Um, that's yet to be determined. Uh, what what the outcome of those negotiations will be, but but but sport is certainly an interest um of that country, as you'd appreciate. um in Samoa. We've also been discussing both with the government and and rugby union authorities uh the the relevance of of rugby union investment there. As you may appreciate, there are some ongoing governance challenges around the game there that we're watching with interest and in conversations with Rugby Australia. So at this point, nothing more to add to what I said a number of months ago, but other than saying that we're in further discussions with those governments and we'll have more to say in due course.
>> Okay. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And then I'll hand over to Senator Schubich for his block.