Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 7:24:50 to 7:44:49
The department explains the 2020 lease agreement for Defense Plaza Sydney and the security accreditation processes involving ASIO and the Australian Signals Directorate.
Topics: Procurement, National security
Speakers: Meghan Quinn, Celia Perkins, Raff Ciccone, Unknown Speaker, Senator Jessica Collins, Speaker 30
>> Okay. But how are you going to protect the the identity, the movements of the personnel going in and out? You know, you could have you could have foreign um espionage. You could have people sitting in the lobby watching to see the movements of who comes in, who goes out, when there's an an incident. They'll be watching who arrives, who leaves. How do you prevent that? Uh,
Senator,
>> so I just want to say all defense sites operate under um frameworks uh that deal with these issues whether it be the Russell precinct, whether it be joint headquarters, whether it be uh defense force plaza. The the uh other aspect here is that um as part of the analysis of where people uh may uh move in terms of capability and skills and functions that they perform that's been part of the the thinking about what functionality needs to move to Ramwick, what functionality needs uh can temporarily go uh to the plaza and and similarly for other sites uh around Australia, what what are the alternatives? Um this is all about building a stronger defense force. Uh that is front of mind in in making sure that we look after our staff, we provide the facilities that they need, the the cap the capital equipment they need, whether it be just uh secret networks. Um we are we do care about our staff, both public servants who are significantly affected by these moves as well as the ADF. Uh because we are an integrated force and we and this is all about protecting our capability over time. So there is a a a tone running through some of your questions that there's not a concern on behalf of the department for the safety of our um forces and I just want to assure the committee that that is not uh the case. Uh we care as much about the people um who uh and Ramwick and in uh Osborne as we do Victoria Barracks.
>> So Victoria Barracks is going to be no
more is it? Uh so the the serving people will be will be in alternative locations performing functions that defend a
>> All right.
>> I will return though you. >> Thank you.
>> Sure. That's all right. Um we will return. Um but just just for clarity though, when was the decision to lease the defense plaza Sydney taken? Because I think as I understand from Oz tender, the lease had commenced in 2023.
>> Uh yes, that's correct. the lease commenced in 2023, but it was um signed on the 13th of May 2020.
>> And who was the minister at the time?
I will have to check who the minister was at this time.
>> So we've we've canvased this uh chair in other committee uh uh inquiry hearings recently. uh and I I think you'll find that our evidence previously has been that the there was a project to uh look at capital city office space uh that commenced in 2019ish uh and uh was looking to replicate space in Sydney, Melbourne and CRA. The CRA uh element didn't proceed. Defense Plaza Melbourne was reconfirmed. The Defense Plaza Sydney site is a new facility. Um the the approval for those two sites uh as the ongoing enduring capital city leases were approved by the finance minister in the Morrison government.
>> Yeah. Which was Mate Corman. But I assume then at the time the government at that time Liberal government at the time would have done due diligence the department would done due diligence particularly around the ownership arrangements which would have been considered as part of the decision. Correct.
>> Yes absolutely. So we we maintain 422 domestic leases. 94 of those are offices around the country and we undertake a security assessment as part of the due diligence process and the approach to market. Uh we also then include in our leases um provisions that allow us to exert you know controls obviously uh requirements to notify us if there are changes to ownership or control. uh and then you know as I've already described uh our own um implementation of physical security uh measures and accreditation of those uh foreign ownership is very common in the commercial property market. So how we then apply and accredit those physical and other security measures are important. I would just add that that security accredititation process at some of the zones uh that have been mentioned some of those are undertaken by defense others are undertaken by colleagues in AIO or the Australian signals directorate. So they are both installed and then accredited to the same standard as any other government facility operating at that level
>> and and as I understand it with my limited experience in this time this building these are evolving matters. Security always changes, advice always changes, and you've just got to move with the times.
>> So, we have we have frameworks that we maintain and within that there when the context and circumstances change, we we also we update and review those frameworks and it it does change, threat levels go up and down, locations, particular targets, etc.
>> Okay, we're going to break. We'll be back here at half past and uh we'll see you around then. Thank you. Uh, Senator Roberts, you have the call.