Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 7:08:59 to 7:15:45
Senators question the 8:10 hot-desking ratio and the availability of secure terminals (Zone 3 and 4) for personnel relocating to Defense Plaza Sydney, raising concerns about operational readiness.
Topics: Workplace culture, Public service staffing, National security
Speakers: Celia Perkins, Senator Jessica Collins, Meghan Quinn, Speaker 21, Speaker 30
>> Uh, Senator, um, thank you for your question. I mean, our intent is that we maintain our capability throughout the relocation. The buildings aren't what make forces command. the people, the processes and our practices. I have very professional uh men and women in the command and we will continue to operate from wherever we are located. Is it optimum? No, it's not. It never is. But we will make it work because that's what
>> Okay. So soldiers and officers will be hot desking at Defense Passa Sydney. Uh what's the ratio of that hot desking
arrange arrangement? follows the Commonwealth uh office uh policy of an 8 to10 ratio.
>> Okay. So, will uh soldiers and officers be required to work from home some of
>> Uh Senator, uh defense uses flexible work arrangements for all of our staff APS and ADF. It's certainly my observation around the country, including in Sydney sites that many of our people make use of that. We're working through in Defense Plaza Sydney now uh the location um that our forces command will occupy. I walked through every floor last week um and uh in addition to uh the allocation um that we know they will need. There's certainly additional capacity still in Defense Plaza Sydney. There'd be nothing about the move that would um necessitate or require a work from home arrangement. As we've implemented the Commonwealth's 8-10 ratio, what we've typically found particularly postco is um when you think about people's um leave, training uh and personal responsibilities, I have not had one example yet around the entirety of the estate where people have come to work and haven't been able to find a
I I think you might find that once you move everybody into defense plaza Sydney given the army is committed to being
>> to be clear that's not the evidence we have before us in terms of the number of the number of staff moving the number of available facilities.
>> Okay. Why don't you give us the numbers of people moving into Defense Plaza Sydney and the number of uh terminals available for them to do their work.
>> So there there is more than enough capacity for people to move in.
>> Can you please give us the numbers? Um,
happy to take that on notes.
>> I would like the number. You just said that you know the numbers. I'd like the numbers now, please.
>> I don't know the exact numbers in my head, but I do know the analysis has been done about the vacancy rates uh and the the the staff that may that may or may not be moving. We are going through a consultation period uh and uh that consultation period will has still got two periods to to go. The first one um finishing very soonly and then there will be another transition plan put to individual staff. So until that's done there exact there may well be some changes at the margin um subject to the feedback which is consistent with our uh obligations under employment law. So for the for the public service we we are also consulting with the ADF. Uh we're not required to but we are doing so consistent with the desire to make sure everyone's well well understood what's happening. Um we have done the detailed work. We are not aware of any issues. If you've got other evidence we're happy to
take it. Given the army is committed to be ready to fight tonight. If we were to have a large operation exercise and forces command been split into partly into temporary buildings, partly into an open plan setting ratio of 8 to Uh how is that all going to work? If everybody has to come into work, is everybody going to have the terminal they need to work from? What's what's going to happen? Do they have the zones they need to work from? And Defense Plaza Sydney, how are the zones going?
>> I can take the zone question for you. Um because it's very important part of this planning. When we fitted out, Defense Plaza Sydney, um the physical fit out is to a um physical security zone 3, that's a secret zone that's been a tremendously valuable uh for this work. Um and there and there are a number of zone 4 spaces in the building. So it is uh absolutely
>> Do they do they fit the numbers of people that will be in there required to use zone 4? Yes, they do >> the increased numbers.
>> Yeah. So, um as I said, uh we're working through this. Most of the work that uh we undertake in defense is is at the zone 3 level. Russell headquarters is primarily at the zone 3 level. Uh that's how we operate on the secret network. The secret network is our war fighting network. Yes. >> Um so we that building is physically from a physical security perspective. um uh probably a better quality of security fit out than I would say Russell uh headquarters because it's a much newer fit out.
>> So your evidence to me is that every single personnel that will be relocated to Defense Plaza Sydney will have their own terminal. They'll have access to zone 3 whenever they need it >> and there'll be enough zone fours for them to plus also can you please reflect on the zone five access to please? Uh,
Senator, my evidence to you is that Defense Plaza Sydney will have adequate terminals uh, Defense Protected Network and Secret uh, at an 8 to10 ratio for
>> So, they won't have one each themselves. It'll be you have to wait.
>> Senator, we have very detailed usage data on the Secret Network and in almost every defense location. Um, there's plenty of DSN terminals that don't get logged on to every day. So, I I'm very
>> We're not in a war, Miss Perkins.
Senator, um I'm very comfortable with the current plan that there will be adequate secret terminals installed uh in Defense Plaza for the staff who are transitioning. >> What about zone 5? Uh look, I think to the secretary's point uh and why we can take on notice some of the details, the site transition plans that we're developing for all defensement sites are extremely detailed and they go through all of the elements of both people, capability and supporting services. We're in the um change management process right now which as the secretary said might create some adjustments to that plan. One of the um uh components of V there are a couple of components of Victoria Barracks uh Sydney that are a little bit more challenging for us. Zone 5 um uh is is one of those. There's some
other >> challenges around the zone five
>> zone 5 capabilities just take a bit longer to build and accredit. Um
>> will you have a zone 5 at Defense Plaza Sydney?
>> I think we will have a zone five at
>> you think you will or are you planning to have one?
>> We're planning to have a zone five facility at Randwick.
All right. What about what about car parks? How are the personnel going to get to it? Where do they park?