Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 2:06:58 to 2:10:56
Senators question why the majority of the 18 identified project descopes or delays remain classified, arguing that the lack of disclosure prevents proper parliamentary scrutiny of public expenditure.
Topics: Government spending, Integrity, National security
Speakers: James Paterson, Robert Chipman, Hon Murray Watt, Unknown Speaker
>> Okay. Um you we went through those three now uh public uh rep prioritizations uh and we've noted that the fourth is classified. Um for the record I put a request into the minister's office today and asked that I be briefed today ideally in the lunch break so that if there are any questions arising out of it that can be asked in a forum like this I can do that this afternoon after we return. So we're waiting for a response from them on that. But to the 18 other kind of descoping delays, etc. Are all of those now public? Those 18?
>> Uh, no Senator, we have not made all of those public.
>> Okay. How many are public?
>> Uh, the the issues that we have discussed uh publicly are the C-27J's transition to a new capability, the integrated air missile defense program. And and those are the two that have been made public.
>> Right. So even in if I once I get on top of my quanss I will only know two of the 18 descope delayed etc.
>> We have given a little bit more insight into the the nature of those 18 projects. So there were some $2.5 billion of the 4.5 that was saved through reprofiling was done with facilities infrastructure and logistics projects and again that reflects the priorities in the national defense strategy. Uh and then we the balance we did there's a balance of investments and savings that were made there that go to capability outcomes that we have not been able to disclose uh due to the nature of their classification.
>> Right. So um does that mean we we know three of the areas of savings and there are 15 that are unknown.
>> There are multiple projects that involve facilities, infrastructure and logistics support. So
>> Okay. I'm just help me. I'm just trying to establish of the 18 that you've said that are in there, how many are public and how many are not.
>> I think it would be in the order of eight where we can that we can openly disclose, but but again, there's about 10 that are related to capabilities that we're less capable of talking in this environment about.
>> So, I'll I'll give the minister a heads up. I know he'll object to this, but there are So, we've got 10 secret cuts.
>> Well, thank you for the heads up. Of course, I reject that categorization. I mean funding has not been cut from the defense budget. Funding has been substantially increased.
>> We're talking about individual capabilities.
>> Yeah. And if I can complete my sentence, um uh the chief um of the ADF was only this morning pointing out that we need to be flexible and respond to changing conditions. And so quite rightly decisions are made to use that increasing bucket of funding to prioritize particular things that become more important than others.
>> Yep. And this pos this committee is in no position to assess whether the right decisions have been made because 10 of those rep prioritizations, delays, descopes, whatever language you want to put around it, 10 of those capabilities are not being disclosed. How can we? Our job on behalf of the people of Australia in this committee is to assess the decisions of government and to contest them if necessary, agree with them where they're reasonable. We are we cannot do that if they're secret.
>> Well, sorry.
>> No, sorry.
>> Uh we've had a discussion earlier about the opportunity for classified briefings where that's more appropriate. Yes, but
as we've also discussed earlier, Minister, I've got no idea that I need to request a classified briefing if you don't tell me when I ask in previous estimates months ago or in questions on notice since that there are these undisclosed rep prioritizations dcope delayed that you can't tell me about in this forum.
>> But you've now requested a classified briefing. So,
>> well, it turns out I needed to request 11 classified briefings, not one.
>> I I don't know that anyone's saying you need to request a separate briefing for
know there were other items. I thought there was one.
>> Well, the officials have provided you with the information they can, and there are opportunities and avenues to request classified briefings.