Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 3:18:11 to 3:25:14
Discussion on regional tourism's reliance on backpackers and the behavioral effects of visa changes on rural labor supply.
Topics: Tourism, Employment
Speakers: Speaker 15, Dr Paul Grimes, Nicholas Dowie, Senator Matthew Canavan, Unknown Speaker, Senator Raff Ciccone
be directed to the department of home
affairs. So we also have the palm scheme in this country and the palm scheme has a lot of limitations that um don't make it enthusiastically embraced by the tourism industry like minimum hour obligations where the employer continues to pay the costs of the palm scheme visa holder even if they can't give that visa holder work because our tourism industry is so heavily relied reliant on casual workers uh during [snorts] the warmer months, during the busier months. So, it's correct, isn't it, that the tourism industry does not embrace the palm
variety of views from the sector about the palm scheme and we don't have the exact figures in front of me, but I think there's um from my last recollection there's over 600 workers working in the accommodation sector um under the palm scheme, but would have to get um advice from the Department of Employment, which I think runs that program for the precise figure for you.
So, uh, the unfairness that would be attached to using UK working holiday makers to meet the needs of our tourism industry and the unhelpful way that the palm scheme applies to our tourism industry takes us back to needing to keep the current rates of backpackers, doesn't it? To be able to properly support our thriving tourism industry in this country. You agree with
asking me for to express an opinion on various aspects of government policy.
>> Well, having regard to those facts, you'd be aware how reliant our tourism industry is on backpackers, and you'd be aware of the unfairness and the limitations to which I've referred to other options that might otherwise be available. So, doesn't that take us back to the fact that our tourism industry depends on backpackers and needs to
the the the tourism industry does utilize um backpackers for aspects of its uh of its labor of its labor force. I'm happy to take you through what our data says about that.
>> Go ahead.
>> So um what our data from the international visitor survey suggests is around that of 86% of firstear working holiday makers undertake some form of work um when they're in the country. And what our survey also says that of those that do work, approximately 40% um work in the tourism sector.
And speaking of surveys, are you aware of ATIX survey? And just confirming that that's the Australian Tourism Industry Council. Are you aware of their survey that was undertaken in September this year, which was an opinion poll of 1,000 Australians, 72% did not consider working holiday makers to be migrants. They're tourists, right? traveling around Australia earning money to put back into our regional communities to pay their way through their holiday. And 76% supported working holiday makers staying longer to travel and work across regional Australia. Only 8% supported the changes that are intended to be made to decrease the rates of backpackers to almost 50%. Are you aware
of that poll? Senator, I think this is going into matters that are really for the Department of Home Affairs, not for the tourism board.
>> Will you play an advisory role to the decision?
>> As Mr. Dowie indicated, uh happy to be helpful in um uh providing you with information on the labor force impacts.
>> Well, I'm very grateful for the advisory role that you play on behalf of our tourism industry to our government. And so I'm interested to understand if you are aware of this poll because of course polls like this would inform the advice that you give to our decision makers in this country.
>> Fundamentally the question is going to matters for the department of home affairs rather than for the tourism portfolio. Um as I mentioned a moment ago um principal um impacts um from our perspective are on the labor supply
impacts. So when you give advice to government, is it motivated by the best interests of the tourism industry in this country?
>> We're a public we're a public service agency. So we're motivated by the public interest. Um, one of the reasons why we created within OS trade the office of tourism and the visitor economy was actually precisely to ensure that there was a strong capability within the Australian government to provide advice on the tourism industry and to liers closely with uh industry. We take that we take that very very seriously um Senator indeed quite passionately but we we are very mindful of the fact that you know as public servants our focus is on the public interest in general
>> and the public interest from all of the matters to which I have referred this evening the public interest clearly supports keeping the rates of backpackers at their current rate so we can properly support our tourism
as a as an expression of opinion. Um, uh, Senator, uh, as I said, we're here to, uh, to assist you with matters relating to tourism
>> and matters that are in the public interest. So, I was then testing what you consider to be in the public interest. That's
>> well established that it's not the not the role of uh, officials to be providing matters of opinion before uh, estimates committees.
>> That's not what I was asking. Okay, they're my questions. Chair, I'll give someone else a chance in the next five minutes and I have to go to another committee. Thank you very much for answering my questions.
>> Well, we do, but I doubt we'll get to
them. >> I just got one question then. Um, just on this the followup from uh Senator Bler uh uh you mentioned that most of the visas are year one. The problem though is the feedback I've got from employers and I've spoken to quite a few backpacker workers themselves is without the incentive of year two and year three, they're either not going to come here or if they do they won't go to the rural and remote areas because there's not the same guaranteed incentive for them. Have you looked at that that effect on the ballots and caps on whether or not people come here for year
Senator what we've done is we've we've been able to look at the changes about what our well let me rephrase. We've been able to um provide what we think the impact of these changes is based on what our data tells us about what people are currently doing at the moment. So in terms of any behavioral change that there might be as a result of this. So for example as you've mentioned are people going to are fewer people going to work in regional areas as a consequence of this? we've not been able to model or to estimate that with any degree of certainty because there hasn't really been a benchmark for us to to use because this is
>> certainly the colloquial feedback I'm getting um but all right we're chair sorry to cut you off but given the time I think we if it's okay I've got some similar questions to tourism Australia