Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 3:11:25 to 3:18:11
Impact of proposed Working Holiday Maker visa caps and ballot systems on the tourism sector's labor supply and expenditure.
Topics: Tourism, Employment
Speakers: Speaker 15, Nicholas Dowie, Dr Paul Grimes, Senator Raff Ciccone, Unknown Speaker
>> Thank you very much, chair. I have some questions around the [clears throat] um promised cuts to working holiday makers and how it impacts the tourism industry. Do we need to have a change of panel or thank you for stepping up?
>> So, um to the table,
>> tourism businesses and working holiday makers.
>> We got a new name, Clark. You're not Phil King, I don't think, but uh >> we'll get rid of that name. Yep. Yep. >> I mean, you might be Philip King, but I
>> Uh, tourism businesses and working holiday makers have been unfairly included in a political campaign to cut the overseas migration rate. Um, did you give input prior to the promised cap and ballot system being proposed?
>> Uh, Nicholas Dowy, general manager of the office of tourism and the visitor economy. And the answer to your question, Senator, is yes, we did provide input to government.
briefly in the time available, um can you summarize the input please that you gave um >> having regard to the impact that it would have on the tourism industry in
this country? We we did provide advice to government on the impact um that it would have and um given that it given the we did provide advice to government as part of a deliberative uh process I'm happy to to take on notice what we are able to share with you um about what we were able to provide.
>> And did you did your um input include that it would have an adverse impact on the tourism industry in this country?
Well, we looked at um what the impact of it would be particularly around um um the expenditure from that group as well as what a potential labor supply impact would look like
>> and that it's likely to have a $1.6 billion adverse impact per year on the tourism industry in Australia.
>> Well, I'm aware of that $ 1.6 billion figure has been put forward by um some industry groups about what their
>> Australia's leading industry group.
Well, as I'm aware, I think that that that particular um analysis has come from the Australian Tourism Industry Council of what their assessment um of the impact of the of the change would be
>> and I crunched their numbers and it added up to me. Did it add up to you?
>> Well, as I said, that's that's a matter for them in terms of how they calculated that particular number.
>> And what do you think about the number?
>> Well, I think that's that's that's a number that that that ATIC have calculated. So I'm not in a position to
>> and it makes sense on the when they set out the bases to arrive at that figure,
>> Well, I think what I'd say is that I think it's worthwhile looking at what the change was that government has announced and particularly some of the main changes that we're seeing here that Minister Burke has announced is the introduction of caps and ballots for the second and third year of the working holiday maker program. And in particular, what Minister Burke has announced is that there will be a reduction of 38,000 visas um based on current figures in years two and years three of that program.
>> Yes. So about almost 50% cut to working holiday makers. That's right, isn't it?
>> Well, I think it's important to distinguish the difference between the entire working holiday maker program and the changes that have been announced to the second and third year of the program.
>> Yeah. Overall, in any given 3-year period, it's almost 50%, isn't it? Well,
I don't think it's almost 50% in terms of the entire program. So, I think at the moment um which I can um check some figures from the Department of Home Affairs, but I think there's about 225,000 uh working holiday maker visas that are in the country as of uh June of this year. So, that 38,000 figure, as I said, only relates to the second and third year of the program, not the first year of the program, which is where the majority of working holiday maker visas
I'm not sure that's right, but what modeling have you done on the impacts to the Australian tourism sector from these cuts to backpackers?
>> Well, as um just to be clear, as said, there were there were there were changes to the working holiday maker um um program that Minister Burke has
>> What modeling have you done? Have you done modeling
>> that? Well, we've we've we've estimated to our best ability what we think the impact of that will be and that's that was the basis upon which we provided
of the impact?
>> Well, as I say that that that that full estimate was the subject of advice that we did provide to government.
>> Okay. So you have done modeling your
>> Well, we have done it.
>> You're refusing to answer the question. So on what regional basis?
>> So Senator, I think it's I think as I've said to you, we we we've provided advice to government about that. I'm happy to take on notice um what what you know what we are able to provide from that advice but I think it's worthwhile to to share some observations um around um around some of the things that we know from the working holiday maker program. So, as I said, there'll be 38,000 less second and third year uh visa holders
>> I'm sorry to interrupt, but I am aware of the changes. Um, but I'm just specifically interested to talk to you about the impact that it will have on our fabulous tourism industry in this country, particularly Tasmania, where Tasmania is 16 times more reliant on backpackers than any other part of Australia. So, if we can turn to um the UK working holiday makers. So, the UK working holiday makers are excluded from these promised cuts to backpackers, but they're not required to perform any work in regional Australia. And so if we said we will impose a requirement on UK backpackers to perform work in regional Australia and they continue to be uncapped, all we're going to be doing is discriminating against backpackers from other countries in the world to favor UK working holiday makers, aren't we?
>> Senator, I think um it's appropriate to focus on the different elements of the impact on the tourism industry. One is the impact on um expenditure in tourism. But fundamentally I think my question is about
holiday makers. We don't have much time and I just like my question answered.
>> Yeah. No no Senator I was I was hoping to be um uh to be helpful. Um
>> I just would like my question answered please. It was about UK
>> working
answer then we'll move on. Paul continue
please. But but um you can get an indication you one of the one of the things that is a point of focus is the impact on labor supply um and Mr. Dow would be able to give you an indication of the broad impacts on uh on labor supply and how that compares with labor supply to the tourism uh industry uh in total which I think was the thrust of the question you were getting at. The second question you're asking about fairness is really a matter that isn't about the uh tourism portfolio but would be rather one um to