Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 3:33:48 to 4:59:05
Details on the transition to the Remote Australia Employment Service and the provision of essential services like reliable power in remote communities.
Topics: Employment, Closing the Gap, Electricity grid
Speakers: Speaker 22, Kerrynne Liddle, Speaker 32, Larissa Waters, Unknown Speaker, Ellie Whiteaker, Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, Interjection, Karen Grogan, Speaker 29, Speaker 30, Speaker 33, Speaker 34, Speaker 35
>> thank you, Chair. Uh good afternoon. Uh I would like to ask some questions uh about uh the remote Australia employment service. So um one of the commitments that um was made before we came to government was to replace the failed community development program with the remote Australia employment service. I'm wondering if you can talk me through uh the difference between the CDP and the RAES uh how they're different.
>> Thank you. I might hand across to Miss Guthrie.
Guthrie, group manager, jobs and economic development group. Uh yes, uh correct. The remote Australia employment service is the employment service that operates in remote communities that has replaced the community development program or the CDP. Uh it's in 60 regions of Australia and it commenced on has jobs wages and uh and conditions. Uh and the commitment has been developed through two programs. So one was the remote jobs and economic development program which was a commitment for 3,000 jobs. The other is through the remote Australia employment service. Uh and it is a pre-employment service that's designed to help people looking for work program. Uh raise has a greater emphasis and focus on jobseker engagement with providers having the flexibility uh about how they engage with job seekers to tailor services. So, for instance, that might look like being able to work with a participant uh online or through provider. Uh and we do have a range of trials focused on improving literacy and numeracy uh and a focus on increasing the jobseker assessment process.
>> Thank you. uh the remote Australia employment service. A part of that uh requires providers to invest in locally designed community projects and offer more flexible culturally safe support. Can you talk a little bit about how that works in practice and how communities are involved in shaping them?
>> Thank you, Senator. Yes. And so, um probably a key part is there's been a very uh deliberate incremental approach to being able to do this. And so we did test uh this approach through the previous program under a trial that was established uh around um 2022 that was started in 2022 was um that having a local place-based initiative that suited that local circumstance uh would be successful. So we did see um over 3,500 participants placed in employment through that trial uh which was an increase of about 7% in placements since the previous year. So that was a really key part that was embedded into the new remote Australia employment service. And uh a big part of what that looks like now is sort of a two-pronged approach that we're working through about community involvement. One of those is when an individual or a job seeker comes in to meet their employment provider, uh they go through what's called a job plan. uh and through that job plan that is a designed to work with the participant so the provider can understand their aspirations for work the skills that they want to the skills that they want to acquire uh and over time as they're building up the profile of those jobs plans to be able to identify what a community project might look like that both benefits the job seeker but also is something that communities want to see as a service or a program within their community. uh and then there is the uh that coming forward into the next period of the program because we are working through the implementation will be then you know it's how the provider works with a local community board meeting that says that the community wants to see that in their in their community.
>> Great. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh we'll go to Senator So I might throw this in. Um given that um you know you've explained that you don't necessarily control what work is actually done that that's communityled. What criteria actually sits around that to make sure that the projects that are are um not only um fit whatever criteria that you apply. I'm not making an assumption about what criteria you apply, but also if you're going to be doing projects and tasks, you also need equipment and infrastructure to actually follow that. How does that all line up so that people actually are in meaningful work and not just sitting around waiting for a project or funding to catch up and supplies to catch up? road crew service if you don't have the equipment there for the the shovels and the things that you need to dig up. Uh and so the um the the flexibility within that funding for community projects does allow for the capital equipment uh and also things like mentoring um supervision to be able to make sure that you can operationalize that community project as soon as possible. And I might just pass down to Mr. O' Sullivan for the answer to your first question. Sorry.
>> Thank you for your question, Senator. Uh so Ben Solen branch manager remote jobs and employment programs branch. Uh so in general terms it is commu the provider working with community to determine the projects that community wants to undertake. NAA has a role then in assessing those proposals that providers bring forward with community. And so what we're looking at through that process is ensuring that the proposal is put forward a value for money that if it is a request around infrastructure improvement, asset supervision, equipment, resources that those are closely linked to the community project that it's not general cost, it's actually specific to the project that the community has asked for. Uh so it's part of that process that checking around the value for money, checking of evidence of community support. uh and also checking that the projects uh being created broadly are aligned with creating employment opportunities for participants. So it's not projects for project's sake. It's not work experience or activities for activity sake but it's directly linked to uh employment opportunities available in those communities uh or in surrounding
communities. M okay this question relates it's slightly different but it relates to remote um still and that is you know we heard we know about the enthusiasm of senior executives to go to gma um I have asked in previous qus about um senior executives travel to remote communities and was told that was a difficult thing to provide why is that when people get travel allowance that actually says where their location is that they're actually traveling to I'm trying to understand how many times those executives are actually going out and traveling to remote communities to see people and talk to people on the
>> Thank you, Senator. Um, we actually have a a number of senior executives that's located outside of CRA in our regional offices. So, we actually have a a regional presence with senior executives and
>> yeah, I'm talking about people from outside of CRA where a lot of the decisions are actually made and there are a lot of public servants here in CRA. What about them? >> I'm interested in the number that travel.
>> So, I'm happy to take that on notice. Senator, um certainly know that yes, we would travel uh quite extensively for a range of different things around Australia. You know, as I said, I didn't get to GMA last year, but I certainly was there the year before.
>> You could exclude GMA.
>> Yeah. And there are a range of other sort of Yeah. Uh places. So, we'd have to take it on notice um just to to provide you with those uh details. I did however quickly want to go back um because you asked the question previously about what in addition to um APS staff uh costs were associated with GMA and uh Baranga. So uh we did issue a grant uh of $484,000 for GMA festival and Baranga was $250,000 as a grant
>> in 2025.
>> That was 2025.
>> almost a million dollar contribution to GMA in 2012.
>> It was the 700,000 that you referred to. So there's 484 here plus the 300,000 in
>> the 700,000 was for 2324 year not 20.
>> That's correct. Yes.
>> So that's doesn't include the 700,000.
>> No. So it's 484 for last financial year.
>> Almost a million dollars in Commonwealth funding towards GMA in 2025.
Yes.
Okay.
looking for any opportunity if anyone would like to put things on notice.
>> Yep, I understand that. Thank you. I just want to go to your opening statement and ask a question about the um the uh people known as the stolen generation and um they're attending CRA and I acknowledge that this week. Can I ask how you're defining the people that refer to themselves as the stolen >> Yes, plural.
>> Uh so Senator, we have um a set of eligible eligibility criteria that relate in particular to the scheme um and that because that is operating in the Northern Territory ACT Jarvis Bay. So we aren't defining survivors uh beyond how we might do it in the context.
>> Okay. What I'm trying to understand is because I've been asked this question by elders who I think meet that category completely. Um their concern is they're getting older and there are more people that are entering and calling themselves part of the stolen generations. I'm trying to understand what NIAA is doing to make sure that there isn't creep of that definition that exists in the department or is there a development of another? Is there a is there an organic definition of a of stolen generations that's occurring? I just want confirmation of what's going on.
Uh so um Senator Kate Fipps, acting group manager, uh country culture and connection group. Uh so we uh work so as part of our work with the territories stolen generations uh redress scheme. We work very closely with the healing foundation and uh we feel that they are the best people to give us advice on how to continue to think about the evolution of definitions in this space. Uh so we would take take our lead, we consider them key partners in how we think about this.
>> Okay. All right. Uh just on in terms of your opening statement as well. Um I want to talk about energy. Um we've seen an example in the recent heat wave in the inner part of this country where one there's one thing that is disruption to service during a heat wave. There's another thing that is people who are on prepaid energy plans and what's actually being done to actually protect their health and well-being during periods of extreme heat. Not just when there are disruptions, but when they're on prepaid fixed incomes. Um and I want to understand in particular in South Australia about the take up of the South Australian government in relation to getting on with programs that exist to help them uh get some relief during that period of heat wave. Summer comes around every year and we seem to be dealing with the same issues.
>> So I might turn to my uh colleague the group manager for
>> Thank you for that question. Uh Cheryl Smith, group manager for the West South Group. Um the incident in particular which you're speaking about is in South Australia and so currently at the moment um the power company has an option to uh for residents to actually sign up to a um an email update service
>> which doesn't work in a power blackout which is what I've raised before. So
they have an email update service but they also have a um a um SMS
>> which people tell me is intermittently
>> So at this point in time that's the service that is actually delivered.
>> Who struck that agreement with that energy company? Was it the Commonwealth or the state?
>> I believe that's a state responsibility.
>> Right. So is there any recognition of um the impact of uh the lack of transparency or any concern from the department or is the department getting involved between um the agreement with these people as consumers and their rights as consumers? Because people are people are actually getting their power cut off. I've seen a a notification that gives a time frame of seven days to intermittent power disruptions. How on earth are people supposed to survive on fixed incomes when they're constantly replacing food that's gone off in their fridge or they have medications or they have CPAP machines or they have all sorts of other vulnerabilities. I want to know what the department is doing to engage in those issues because clearly the South Australian government isn't taking this seriously enough.
I would say the South Australian government again like all of the governments who've entered into the partnership under closing the gap has responsibilities for provision of services essential services to um their uh constituency. Um we in NIAA do uh h run uh a series of you know essential and critical infrastructure programs still including um outback power for remote communities in WA uh the Northern Territory and Queensland in part because um the jurisdictions haven't necessarily taken on those responsibilities for the provision of essential services to those communities. We continue to engage um state and territory governments on the need to consider how essential services are being provided. Uh to to communities uh because to your point uh Senator uh in not all instances is it adequate for um uh for for communities in terms of the service that's being provided
>> because I understand also in terms I mean to me it's simple transparency. um you provide people with information about on a separate website so they can ring their friends and say when is my power coming on or whatever but they also have information about what their rights are should the power go off. Um I'm just not seeing anybody taking responsibility for trying to find a solution for these people. And as I said summer comes around every year the same issues. And I think there is an issue of you raised to close the gap. There is a cost to these interruptions that is far greater than also the cost to the individual and that is the health consequences, the vulnerability consequences. Um we invest in close the gap. Um there there has to be health outcomes as a consequence of what people just endured with their power being cut. We invest in trying to get people to those communities through work through a whole lot of incentives to work in those communities. How on earth are we going to encourage people to go and work in those communities and take their skills there when they can't even rely on the power and they are also impacted by those things? I'm just trying to get people understand um we need solutions and we need the lead agency at the Commonwealth level to get involved if the state is letting people down.
So, I'll take that on on notice and and we'll have follow-up conversations obviously as I said with um the relevant departments here in in the Commonwealth, which is the Department of Climate Change, uh Energy and Environment and Water. Um but as I said, we are engaging with states and territories um in relation to outback power uh which I know doesn't necessarily cover all of the the same uh issues that you've referred to, but let me take that away and um yeah, we we'll come back to you and in terms of our future engagements.
>> Thank you.
>> And um if you finish that line of questioning, we will rotate the call. >> And waters. Um, just on closing the gap, Minister, you've previously announced that you're looking at ways to tie state and territory funding towards progress on closing the gap targets. Do you have any updates on that? >> I I wish I wish I had a lot to say on it, Senator Waters, but I can say this that I I am still working through it uh in terms of uh my colleagues uh and the uh ministerial working group on closing the gap. I am mindful that a lot of the uh federal funding agreements are already midway. So I clearly can't impact those. What I can say is that in regards to the Northern Territory and
the remote area investment, uh I have certainly um uh insisted that we had uh elements within the NT ray that did meet what we're trying to do around closing the gap. So, I can say that the Northern Territory agreement uh will hopefully reflect that.
>> Okay. If there's anything more you can um I'm sorry, I'm having difficulty hearing uh you perhaps Hans could turn the mics up a little more, please. If there's anything more that you can provide on notice about the uh changes that you've been able to achieve, I'd love to I would love to learn about that. >> Okay. Thank you. Has NIAA done any advocacy to state governments, in particular to Queensland and Victoria, pushing for adult crime, adult time legislation that will obviously disproportionately impact First Nations kids? Has NIAA done any advocacy with those state governments?
Uh so uh senator um you may be aware it's the attorney general's department that is actually responsible for the justice policy partnership under closing the gap. Um NIAA sits as an observer uh on that particular committee. So we do engage uh through the justice policy partnership with the attorney general's department who is the lead on uh issues around uh crime crime prevention. uh also considering sort of um how we need to continue to reform the justice system uh as it impacts on on youth.
>> Okay. So the liaison is done by AG. You feed into them that take it up the states. Great. Thank you. There's a national commissioner for ainal and touristra islander kids and young people um commissioner bill um that's coming up. Under that bill the minister may request the commissioner cond to conduct research and to inquire into systemic issues. I'm wondering just for clarity is that yourself minister or will that be the social services minister that will have that ability?
>> My understanding is the social services minister senator.
>> Okay. Thank you. um conscious of the time. Um Minister, at the last estimates, you said you've asked the Commonwealth ombbudsman to review the actions of the ACT police who in an appalling incident pulled a young First Nations boy off a bus before realizing that he was not in fact the suspect that they were pursuing. Um, I'm interested in whether there's any updates on that investigation and in particular whether you've confirmed that all ACT police officers have undertaken anti-racism
>> Uh, Senator Waters, I'm happy to take that on notice and provide further details to you.
>> Okay. Thanks very much. Um the first nations national plan for ending violence against women is I'm told going to be launched tomorrow after quite aome um period to to come to that time. Can you outline for me please what role NIA has played in developing that plan and in particular have you had any feedback from Aboriginal orgs about the adequacy of consultation and whether their feedback was in fact reflected in the final draft?
>> Yes thank you senator. Um so there were various ways that NIAA was engaged uh on the work on the development of ourways strongways. Um I uh myself was actually on the steering committee for development of ourways strongways. It did include a number of uh first nations uh community peak organizations uh for example family violence prevention legal services. It had um quite uh renowned uh first nations academics including uh Hannah Mlade uh who was on that. It had representation from state and territory governments and of course the department of social services who was leading the development of theways strongways work. In addition to my participation through that steering committee, there were other IDC processes as well where NIAA engaged with the department of social services and other uh commonwealth agencies including attorney general's department and others uh around the the development of the work. Um the actual uh work in developing uh the way strongways uh work and report was actually done uh by a secretariat which included uh snake which is the peak organization for uh children as well. Um and so there was quite extensive consultation all through with First Nations communities either um as part of this process or through those community controlled organizations who were present um on on the airway strongway steering committee and and uh IDC's but is there anything else the
>> thank you um there's been some repeated calls well there's been calls for years for more funding for family violence prevention in first nations communities and in all communities But given the recent murder of two First Nations women in Lake Kajelago in January, um has NAA made any representations to either the treasurer or the AG calling for additional funding for FELS and other um aiginal controlled DV services. So,
Senator, we uh continue to work with our attorney general's colleagues um in looking at what the resourcing requirements are for family violence prevention legal services. You may be aware that um up until the establishment of the new national agreement on uh justice, we NIAA was actually responsible for granting uh funding to um the family violence prevention legal services. that was transferred when the new agreement um was stood up and it is now the attorney general's department who leads on the provision of funding to um to FBPLS's. At the time though of that transfer we did um the government agreed to quite a substantial increase in funding for FPLS's. So I think it was in the order of a about 112% increase to FPLS's. That's not to say that more couldn't be done. And as I said, there's ongoing engagements with FPLS's about what resourcing requirements they do need and particularly when our Strongways is in the process of being implemented, how their funding will be looked at sort of into the future as well. That that conversation is ongoing as I understand it.
>> Okay.
>> Senator, we've hit the 1:00 mark. Um I'm not sure if you're prepared to put questions on notice or
>> Could I just sneak one more in chair and then I can be done? Great. Thank you. Just in relation to rolling out free period products through archros in remote communities, a very welcome initiative. I'm interested in um how the pilots are going, how many archros have participated in that and how much of the 12 a.5 million has been spent to date.
>> I'm just double checking with the team, but I think that actually might be administered through the Department of Health, but we we might just Yeah.
>> Well, that saves us time then, doesn't >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you, Senator. If it's not, if it
is you, could you take it? Thank you very much. >> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Uh, Senator Little. Oh, do you have any final questions or do we need to bring these um these witnesses back after lunch? Are you sure you got nothing? You want to just No. Squeeze in your fine. Thank you. All right. >> Thank you very much. With that, we will this morning um and this afternoon and
return at 2:00. If I could ask people to swiftly leave the room as we have a
private meeting now. Thank you. Welcome back everybody. Um we are