Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 40:00 to 45:31
Senator Hume questions PM&C officials regarding cabinet briefs for the announced immigration policy and the role of a reported 'leadership group' in decision-making.
Topics: Prime Minister and Cabinet, National security
Speakers: Senator The Hon Jane Hume, Blair Exell, Speaker 1, Speaker 5, Unknown Speaker, Lisa Croswell, Speaker 3
cabinet or or um I should say considered by cabinet?
>> Senator, that's not it's um I think it's a well-considered I'm trying to think of the frame we used before convention that the the prime minister doesn't provide advice about the timings or nature of the advice of what goes to cabinet. It's
a it's a policy that has now been announced that should make
>> that doesn't change no that doesn't change the the basis that we don't divulge the nature of our advice to cabinet or y
>> okay
>> but but you're right the policy has has been announced and I back to your previous question that would be the
>> all right so there was an FOI 2026 276 and the department says that it holds No meetings, no notices, no agenda, no attendance list for any leadership group. That's fine. In that same FOI, document four is described as a cabinet record and document five is a draft cabinet record. So what meeting does each one of those record? Is there a cabinet meeting or is it a leadership group meeting? I'm assuming it's a cabinet meeting. Would
>> be a cabinet meeting, Senator?
If it was a cabinet meeting then that means that any leadership group decision has no documentation that supports it.
>> I'm mad
>> that has been prepared by PMNC. So, I'm
trying to be as helpful as possible, Senator, but to the extent that we are not aware of the existence of a group by the name of the leadership group and we don't provide support to said group if it does indeed exist, there's nothing more we can actually put to our answers, unfortunately.
>> Okay. Well, according to media reports, cabinet approved the immigration package on the 3rd of August. How does a non-c cabinet body stop a cabinet decision from being carried out?
>> Uh, that's a hypothetical as far as I'm
>> And Senator Hume, um, you know the rules about hypotheticals. Um, I wonder given that your information is a media information, a media reporting on something that um, these good folk don't have anything to do with, um, maybe the questions, maybe the the source is where you might find more joy.
was there a second cabinet meeting that discussed the immigration package after August the 3?
>> So again, Senator, we don't go into the timings or dates >> of cabinet discussions.
Was Prime Minister and cabinet told about the withdrawal of Minister Burke from his national press conference?
>> No. Senator,
>> before it was announced,
>> Pmanc was not um advised or consulted on or gave advice around the press conference speech. So, we were I I was aware of it through media reporting.
So is PMNC aware of who counseledled Minister Burke not to go ahead either the prime minister's office, the acting prime minister's office, this mysterious leadership group that may not exist or his own office. As I
said, the PMC was not involved in scheduling cancellation and didn't
Does sound mighty mysterious, doesn't it? That this mystical group that doesn't really exist, that has no formal status, has somehow managed to overturn a decision of a formal body that does make the Well, you're suggesting that it didn't
happen. No, I'm suggesting that you're um maybe asking the wrong group of
people. I could ask the minister at the table. I'm pretty sure if there is a leadership group that the minister would be part of it. >> Did the leadership group overturn a decision of cabinet for the Minister for Home Affairs?
>> I don't discuss
>> to announce immigration package.
>> I don't discuss cabinet decisions.
>> It doesn't sound like it was a cabinet decision. It sounds like it was a decision of a leadership group which has nothing to do with cabinet. Well, you're
making a set of assertions. We're a cabinet government. We make decisions as cabinet. Uh and uh I don't discuss those decisions or the deliberations which give rise to
>> So the decision of cabinet on August the 3 to announce an immigration package was not overturned by the leadership group. Is that your testimony, Minister?
>> No. My evidence is I don't discuss the deliberations of cabinet.
Very mysterious. I have a question for uh the um office of impact analysis. Are