Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:20:59 to 2:25:18
Senator Kim examines the projected $14.8 billion in external labor savings and whether these savings have been realized through the Strategic Commissioning Framework.
Topics: Public service staffing, Government spending
Speakers: Senator The Hon Jane Hume, Christine Chalmers, Dr Caralee McLiesh, Carla Jago, Unknown Speaker
>> Thank you, Chair. I'm going to get you out of here by 10:00, I reckon. So, you know, we're on the home run, folks. Uh, I want to follow up on some questions that Senator PCO asked before on the strategic commissioning framework. That report says that successive budget measures collectively projected $14.8 billion in external labor savings. Just based on your audit, of that 14.8 8 billion. How much of it is reductions in budget appropriations on or agency baselines and how much represents expected reductions in actual expenditure on consultants and on external labor hiring?
>> Thank you. I'll ask Mr. Char to answer
that question? So one is obviously less that is appropriated less that's handed out for external labor hire and one is a reduction in actual expenditure but the appropriation remains the same. Which one is it that you're calculating there? Do you look at a budget number or do you look at an expenditure number?
So the the analyses that were included in the audit report were based on the financial statements of the entities that we sampled.
>> Right. Okay. That's what I wanted to understand. So essentially it's a self-reported number. Is that correct? Each
>> senator I think the 14.8 billion you're talking about it was actually us adding up a series of federal budget measures.
>> Right. Okay. Federal budget measures. Okay. That's what I wanted to understand. Okay. So how much of the expected saving has actually been realized
>> We're I I don't we're not able to answer that question because what uh the reporting from entities was in terms of the strategic commissioning framework targets uh is a is a small proportion of that overall expenditure. Uh so we don't know from the reporting on the strategic commission framework targets uh what that would be.
>> Okay. Well, let's look at it another way then. Can you tell me for the work that's been brought in house in 2425, how many new APS positions were created or reallocated to perform that work?
>> We don't know that either because that wasn't a requirement of entities to report under the framework.
>> Right. Okay. because I kind of thought that the point of this entire program was to stop using the external consultants and either save money or start doing the work in house in which case those costs would increase. But is that not something that the audit is
looking at specifically? Well, we we did do some on the basis of financial statements, we do know that overall expenditure on um external workforce increased and expenditure on employees increased. So they both
>> So both increased. >> Right. Okay. So there wasn't so there hasn't been a saving made on use of external consultants. Then
>> what we don't know is the counterfactual. So what the expenditure on external workforce or on employees would have been without this program. It's just not possible to fill.
>> So it could have been worse. >> Okay. All right. Could have been less
too.
>> I'm going to promise I'm going to stick to my time frame. You've only got five minutes to go. I want to go back to the questions I had earlier on services Australia. Um the one of your reports uh which one was it? found that 123 of 170 confirmed notifiable data breaches were not assessed within the 30-day statutory requirement over the period that it tested. That seems like a very high 123 out of 170 confirmed notifiable data This is for the 2025 report, I think.