Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, , 2:35:47 to 2:50:29
The committee scrutinizes the 'Stop It Now' Australia service and its online learning modules designed to prevent child sexual abuse through clinical intervention.
Topics: Child safety, Online safety, Government spending
Speakers: Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Chris Collett, Unknown Speaker, Senator Jana Stewart, Speaker 15, Leah Blyth, Senator David Shoebridge, Teresa McMichael
>> Thank you chair. Can I have people from the children and families division? Is that
>> this is right?
>> I'd like to discuss with you NAP 21 uh rather uh difficult subject of uh child sexual abuse and the prevention of of that occurring online. Uh so I just want to understand what the national action plan measure 21 is about. So, if you could just for the benefit of the committee just explain the the purpose of uh the website and helpline that you've created.
>> Um I'll pass to my colleagues to provide you a detailed answer. Um Senator, but by way of context, it's one of numerous measures under the uh the national strategy. This particular measure goes to providing um an intervention for adults who may be experiencing thoughts and feelings that could lead uh to child sexual abuse. It's an attempt to and a very important one to interrupt and prevent uh practices. But I might ask Miss Bing or Miss Mcichel to provide you with some detail.
division. Uh thank you for your question, Senator. Uh the stop it now manage unwanted feelings and stop harmful or offending behavior. It also offers guidance for those concerned about another adult's behavior towards
advice on prevention, early intervention
enforcement, academics, and clinicians and has been based on successful
Thank you. And just to confirm, the website states that the goal of the new prevention service is to protect children from sexual abuse by intervening before an individual offends or reaffends. Can you confirm that? service. How how does the department or the service provider measure that
commissioned to uh evaluate the stop at now Australia service. Uh we've entered into a contract uh to evaluate uh to evaluate this measure. The evaluation will examine the establishment, delivery and early operation of the service over its first two years. And we'll consider the experience of service users and stakeholders. Uh the effectiveness of the service in achieving its intended outcomes and the efficiency of service
>> And when will that review commence and when will it be available? >> the review I'm talking about. Well uh interim reporting due November December >> Thank you. Can you tell me uh how much is spent on this uh website and service? available on an ongoing basis. Uh the contract for the service is valued at I've uh taken a look at this material um uh had a look at it uh and I just want to table for the benefit of the committee the uh a screenshot from the material that's available online part of the the learning modules that individuals can engage with. Uh so that's uh table source number two if we could just distribute that so we can everyone understands.
>> Is this the a practical strategy one?
>> Yeah, that's it. That's the one. So, uh, what I've just tabled is a screenshot of the page from the website for individuals.
>> Senator, I'm just going to put it to the, um, committee. It looks like a It is a screenshot from the website.
>> Has Have we got it at the table?
>> Not yet. Yes. So, you might want to just hang on a sec while we wait for >> just the table for for now. >> The screenshot just cuz
So what I've just tabled is a screenshot of a page from the website for individuals concerned about their sexual thoughts which has a section titled a practical strategy delay distract decide. It instructs someone who is concerned about their urges to engage uh their urges to engage in sexual fantasies or sexual behaviors towards children to call someone and focus on the conversation. Two, to leave the room or close the laptop, to go for a brisk walk, to do a puzzle, cook, exercise, to journal your thoughts, use grounding techniques. I I don't see any advice there to actually go and seek out professional help. Uh the advice is to simply just go for a walk. Is this seriously the response that the Commonwealth government that's paid $9.6 million for a website service to assist people that have sexual fantasies towards children act on them or want to act on them that they simply just go for a walk? Yeah, I don't think
that's the intention, Senator, and I'm conscious this is one page from a website. Having visited the service. Um, it's a multifaceted intervention in a very complex and difficult space. The clinicians that are available uh to Australians who access that service are trained and very well supported. Um, you can appreciate this is a very challenging uh area to to operate in clinically uh operationally and and legally I should say ethically as well. Um but it's a really important part of a whole of nation strategy. But this is one aspect of a complex multifaceted
>> the first time on this particular page that a referral to a health professional is mentioned is under the OCD subheading. The suggestion in this section is that if you're having sexual thoughts about abusing children but are not aroused by those thoughts, then it's possible that you just have a form of OCD.
>> Sorry, Senator, can you take me to where on the page you're referring to?
>> So, Senator Sullivan, just for your assistance, we just needed to the other ones I was unsure. I couldn't find them on the web page, but since then, I think we've had clarity that they're actually from doing the online modules.
>> Yes, they're on the modules. That's
correct. So one is from the web page which you've got in front of you a screenshot and then the I've been provided two other pages which I will now put to the committee that we table. I just wanted to clarify where they were
>> It's in the series of do if we could table them all together that would be
>> Thank you. All right. I'm happy to table those so the officials have them.
>> Happy to have a look at them.
So the first time that a referral to a health professional is made is is under this section and not anytime earlier. Is a health professional really the last resort before journaling, doing a puzzle or going for a walk when someone is wanting to abuse a child?
>> Sorry, Senator, I don't have the >> I've got the screenshot, a practical strategy, but I think if I am following you, you've moved to a different party.
It's the It's the actual module that the I have tabled them all.
>> Apologies. >> they might even be hot off the printer
Ah, thank you very much. >> So, you're referring to the page titled, "What do I do if my sexual preferences children?" I'm happy to read that.
>> And there's a a page called obsessivempulsive disorder. I think that's the one you're referring to. Actually,
>> the OCD subheading. So this is the first time that it's mentioned to actually seek out the health professional a health professional support. My question is is a health professional the last resort before journaling doing a puzzle or going for a walk and someone is wanting to abuse a child.
>> So the problem I've got trying to respond to your question is I've got three pages taken from if I understand it correctly one part of a website and then one part of a module. So your
website directs people to these online modules. So what you've got there is a screenshot from the the module that someone undertakes. So when someone is seeking out support from this $9.6 million service, they're directed to to undertake this module.
>> It's one of many options available in that there's a a clinical service.
There's a phone number. >> There's this module here that people are directed to and it takes until you get to this subsetting section of OCD uh OCD subheading before you get some advice to actually seek out professional help. And and so my question is why this is the sanctioned online module that the Commonwealth is directing people towards. The first time they see uh any advice to seek out the help of a professional is when you get to this sub heading of OCD. Uh and it says that you if you're not aroused by those thoughts then possibly you just have a form of OCD. So therefore go and get help.
>> I'm not sure that that's the intention
that's what it's
>> the homepage of stop it now has contact the helpline on its front page. So I I think to get to this I I take your points, Senator, but to get to this particular part of a specific module that's one aspect of a multifaceted intervention, you go through the homepage that says a national helpline, contact the helpline, and there's a button to collect to connect. So you can't I don't think you can get to this module without seeing that would be my understanding. I'm not a clinician, but that would be my
on on another page, the website directs people who are concerned about their online behavior to access access the anonymous helpline that you're referring to. Can the department confirm for me what they would classify as concerning
I suspect that's quite a multi- I keep saying multifaceted. I don't think there's a single answer that this service is set up for Australians who are experiencing thoughts and feelings that may lead them to to perpetrate sexual violence against children. It's designed to be as broad as possible to capture anybody who's in that circumstance and provide an intervention to move them away for it. As Miss Bing said earlier, it's based on um a whole range of research both domestically and internationally. uh it's informed by a UK uh model and a pilot that was run uh in Australia. So there are so many different aspects to this. I don't have a single answer. We could take on notice as to whether it's a particular definition. I'm not a clinician myself. >> U but I'm happy to
>> chair. How long have I got?
>> One minute.
>> One minute. Okay. So just to help me is it is it for people who are actively viewing child sexual abuse material, child pornography or engaging in sexual communication with children online?
>> It is for anyone that is either looking or thinking about looking at online child sexual abuse material. Also contact offending. So if somebody's spending a lot of time with children and having inappropriate sexual thoughts about their children. So it's both contact and online
>> with on this module uh on under the fantasies module there is
>> which page are we on now senator
>> uh I haven't got the page number in front of me sorry if it would have been the third document
>> the exploring therapeutic options
>> in the fantasies module. Have you got that in front of you?
>> I don't have a fantasies model. I'm
>> Sorry I gave them all away which is a Um, yeah. What What do I do if I have sexual preference towards children? >> so I think the secretary under Don't beat yourself up. Can we go to that? >> You haven't got this one.
>> I think the secretary's about to provide.
>> Can we just distribute them all? It'd be much more efficient if I
>> Oh, hang on. Is it on >> What do I do with my sexual
>> stop now.org.au? Are you
>> It's the second one, the last dot point. Don't beat yourself up.
>> Yeah,
>> I found the section you're referring to, Senator.
>> Yeah. So, uh, let me let me just quote it. Uh, for many people, it simply does not feel realistic to never have sexual fantasies about children or to end masturbating to the thought of children. Mindfulness can help people come to terms with their feelings about this. Compassion and self-acceptance can also be very helpful. Having a sexual interest in children can feel lonely and may feel society doesn't understand your situation. If you need to speak to someone about this, please use the help and support line. Does the government understand that there are some that believe that attraction to minors is maybe just a sexual orientation? >> Yes, we certainly were there interpreted uh as as sort of some sort of uh acceptance of that behavior rather than actually addressing it. Uh there's
absolutely no sense from the government that that is the case, Senator, and the service that we're talking about here absolutely does not hold that view.
>> Thank you, Senator Sullivan. I'm going to uh now share the call uh and uh go to Senator David PCO.