Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, , 9:07:02 to 9:15:13
Discussion regarding claims made by the US Antisemitism Envoy that the Australian Envoy had been "sidelined," and the nature of briefings provided to foreign government officials.
Topics: Antisemitism, Social cohesion
Speakers: Jillian Segal, Senator David Shoebridge, Stephanie Foster
No, Senator.
Do you agree with his claim that you have been sidelined?
Um it's quite interesting, Senator, isn't it, that uh he he made this, I believe, at some press conference that I've had no knowledge of. Um I I don't think that is the case. Um I think that um uh he was perhaps not informed uh as to the timing when the government has accepted um the plan that I put forward and that we've been working very constructively on delivering it uh in its different aspects. So um I'm not sure that he was up to date, but he certainly um didn't speak to me about it.
Did did so you you're aware when he made that claim that you'd been sidelined? How was it brought to your attention?
I think it was brought to my attention in the media.
Um and did you reject it publicly and did you seek to contact the US anti-Semitism envoy and correct him?
No, I I did not, Senator.
Did you did you did you make a correction in the public domain anywhere that I could see?
No, I I I I did not, but I but I did um uh why not communicate well I don't didn't think it was necessary, Senator. That person uh or the department who was uh perhaps most concerned about it was uh uh a Prime Minister's office, and I certainly communicated to them that that uh but did not uh had not been consulted with me.
Well, was it I mean it's a this is not just a nobody, this is the anti-Semitism envoy from one of our largest um uh uh partners, I suppose you could call it that, one of the most powerful countries um on the planet. Um you left that error uncorrected in the public. Um and you've left it uncorrected, I think, in the public until I've raised it with you now. You do don't you think you have an obligation to ensure that misinformation and mistruths said about you are being corrected? You don't, especially when it comes from a powerful foreign government official like that?
Well, Senator, I think um uh I I do think um uh that the new cycle moved on very very quickly, and uh I think that uh the community that I communicate with uh understand the work that is going on and think the government understands the work that is going on, and public officials understand the work that is going on. And I think it was just seen to be um a rather exaggerated expression. I don't think uh it was something that uh it didn't really get further traction. Um it was probably best just to let it pass.
Um so despite it being untrue, despite you knowing about it, despite it coming from the US anti Semitism envoy, which is a person of
I I didn't think it was uh it was wise, uh Senator, to repeat uh the allegation and to engage in a uh oral dispute with the envoy. I think uh um uh the envoy I understand that I will um uh uh you know we will all be able to uh speak to the envoy um at some stage in in the future and um uh at that point I can always correct it with him personally, but I didn't think it was uh um of necessity to raise it as as a major um issue in in the public discourse here and to give it oxygen.
Well when a foreign envoy makes comments about our country and an official of our country, and the official knows it's wrong, I would be my expectation that an official would make that clear.
Um and and as I understood it, I thought it was wiser to speak to the government. I did raise it with the government, and of course the government at the appropriate time in the appropriate manner raise it with the um overseas ambassador or their government when when they engage in discussions. I just thought that was the better course.
Has that been done?
I don't know what the government has done.
I have raised it with well, as I mentioned, but I don't think you were you said you were waiting for the moment to raise it with the US envoy himself. Is that what you said? You've been waiting for a moment?
Uh no, no, I said I will, I believe, have an opportunity down the track to raise it with the envoy at an appropriate moment. I did not need to give it oxygen at that point.
When I next thing is, in person, have you sought such a meeting with the envoy to to to correct him and make it clear that he made that error, public error? Have you sought such a meeting?
No, I haven't sought such a meeting, but there will be opportunities because the envoys um all the envoys in the world uh, as you know, Senator, do get together from time to time. And at the next such gathering, uh I I will make sure that I take the appropriate uh time with uh Rabbi Caplorn to explain to him what is going on and how we are joining together um government, envoy and community to fight uh anti-Semitism. Um I I think that is the actually the more um uh you know thoughtful way to deal with uh such a statement that that I think was made uh without the correct information.
Um have you briefed any foreign government official on Australian domestic policy?
Um I'm not sure uh no, not not that I'm aware of.
Well, I'm only asking you matters that you would be aware of, obviously. I'm assuming if you've briefed a foreign government official, you would be aware of it. So uh does the not being aware of it? Am I meant to take anything from that?
Well, are you if you are talking about foreign government officials being other envoys, I certainly do get together with other envoys, and we talk about what is happening domestically vis-a-vis fighting anti-Semitism in Australia, and they talk about what is happening in their countries fighting anti-Semitism in their countries.
Given the time, um uh Ms. Siegel, if you could provide on notice the instances where you where you have briefed a foreign government official on Australian domestic policy and what um including dates and who those officials were, um that might just be appropriate if you could take that on notice.
Just before I take it on notice, could you clarify for me? Are you talking about foreign government officials being other envoys?
Um I'm talking about anyone who holds uh an official position for a foreign government. No, I that could that could be an ambassador, that could be a minister, that could be an envoy, that could be a plenipotentiary. I'm talking my question is broad, any foreign government official.
Uh well, um uh I can certainly uh detail uh meetings that I've had with other envoys. I don't know that I've briefed them on domestic policy, but I've briefed them on the work that I do on my plan for that domestic policy.
Yes, I appreciate you'll provide that part of my answer. But if there's any other foreign government official that you've had such a uh a meeting or briefing with, I would ask you to include that too in your answer.
Senator, it might be helpful for Ms. Siegel if you define what you mean by domestic policy?
Um policy in relation to Australia.
But are you are you talking about Ms. Siegel talking about her own plan?
I I'm I'm relevant to your work as the envoy. I'm only asking about matters that are relevant to your work as an envoy. So if that clarifies matters. And you you've agreed to take that on notice?
Yes, we'll certainly take that on notice, Senator.