Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, , 9:15:13 to 9:20:00
The Envoy is questioned on her previous evidence regarding the Gaza death toll, specifically her claims that figures were inflated, which were contested by the United Nations.
Topics: Antisemitism, Human rights
Speakers: Jillian Segal, Senator David Shoebridge, Unknown Speaker
Ums Siegel, do you stand by your evidence that the Gaza death toll as identified by the Ministry of Health in Gaza is grossly inflated?
Um Senator, uh you are referring to my evidence before the Royal Commission. Um I I said before the Royal Commission that I thought that there uh had been uh uh a um I'm just trying to recall the exact words, but I thought that the the numbers that had been used had uh conflated both uh those who are combatants and those who were um civilians, and that had not been made clear. So that was uh the essence of what I said to the Royal Commission, and that is what was accepted. I I furthered um clarified that to the Royal Commission that uh that was my criticism that at no point when SBS quoted those numbers did they make it clear that it included combatants?
Well, actually what you said was you said that in relation to the Gaza death toll figures from the Gaza Health Ministry reported by SPS and ABC, you said that they were grossly inflated, and that that was as well well known and even accepted by the United Nations.
Um Senator, you're not quoting the remainder remainder of my evidence where I made it clear that that can fl that inflation related to the fact that there was another sentence after that uh that made it clear that what I was referring to was the non-identification of the fact that it included combatants and that that was not the number of civilians. That is what I said.
Is is that the element that you say makes it grossly inflated? And can you point to a statement by the United Nations that validates your position? Can you point to a single statement by the United Nations that validates your position?
I didn't say that was the case. I said that there had been uh uh discussion that it uh combined uh the two elements or separate out the two elements.
What do you say to the spokesperson of Secretary General Antonio Guterres who, in response to your evidence to the Royal Commission said, for us, the Ministry of Health in Gaza is a source, we and many others often cite independent validation of subsets of the data has found no significant discrepancies in their numbers. What do you say to that clear statement that came from the Secretary General of the UN to contest your evidence to the role?
I note I note that.
Well, it's right, isn't it? What the UN has said there is correct.
I don't know what's uh whether that's correct or whether other sources that have uh come to me about the the numbers are correct. I just say I note that, Senator, but um in a sense uh that issue uh was SIDIC to what was the tone, the frequency, etc. of reporting about Gaza from the ABC. That was the point that was in discussion.
Well, you you mentioned you mention other sources that have come to you that contest this. Well, could you please provide on notice what those other sources are that have come to the remote?
The members of the community. I I never disputed the number, Senator. I I made it clear that it failed to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. That was the point that I made.
So but you said in your answer other sources. Are you saying that's just conversation?
Individual conversations. I I meet with the Jewish community all the time, Senator, in uh um as I as I go around uh meeting with communities in different things. And they feel, Senator, that that is my role, Senator, um, to speak to community and to reflect their concerns.
Your Your role in a Royal Commission is to give um truthful evidence and for that evidence to be supported by some kind of verifiable fact. When you made those claims about the United Nations, those claims were not true, and they were rejected by the United Nations. How do you explain that?
Uh Senator, I I I I I say I note the United Nations uh views. Um I accept the United Nations views because they are the United Nations. But that does not track from the concerns of the Jewish community as conveyed to me uh about uh the way in which uh the reporting had been done. But that's that's all I can say, Senator.