Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:19:14 to 2:25:47
Examination of staffing levels within the immigration detention network following the transition to Secure Journeys and the standards for safety and security.
Topics: Public service staffing, Workplace culture
Speakers: Hon Jonathon Duniam, Gavan Reynolds, Vanessa Holben, Speaker 1, Stephanie Foster
on uh matters secure journeys and relating to the ombbudsman's uh report into Villawood um and uh adjacent to that as I understand it the United Workers Union estimated that staffing across the detention network fell from 1900 to 1,000 following the transition to secure journeys. Is that the figure that um we understand to be the case of the number of staff deployed by secure journeys?
>> So Senator, I don't have that previous figure. What I can tell you is that [clears throat] secure journeys as of last Thursday had 1,471 >> personnel in the company.
>> Okay. Uh are staffing figures and minimum staffing levels an enforcable performance requirement under the
>> No Senator,
>> are there any standards around staffing levels in the contract?
>> No, Senator.
>> So Senator, the contract is is structured not around staffing numbers but on the achievement of is it outcomes?
>> Outcomes.
>> Okay. And so uh just then in terms of uh claims though of course by certain representatives of the union and others suggesting that there are individual employees having to monitor and supervise as many as 50 detainees does speak to a concerning situation there. So I just wonder has the department or ABF ever indicated to secure journeys that there should be a minimum staffing
>> So no. So no but we do work um very constructively and continuously with the contracted service provider secure journeys >> to ensure that all of their commitments with regards to the safety and security of Australia's immigration detention network are met. That includes the number of detention security officers required to ensure that safety and security.
>> And what is the number required to ensure minimum standards of safety and security?
>> So we're work we're working with the contracted service provider. Um
>> do you determine that or do they determine that?
>> So we work with them. >> Um so we conduct the assurance to ensure that they're meeting our standards.
>> So it is your standard. So what is your standard with regard to that?
>> We set the standard with regards to safety and security of the immigration detention.
>> And where could I find that standard?
>> Uh so that that standard is in a series
>> policy documents. >> Yeah. So it's in a series of policy documents, Senator. And what what I would say too is um the the network in terms of its capacity and the numbers of detainees within the network fluctuates. So, so therefore the staffing requirements have to also flex with that flexible nature of the network which is the inflows and the outflows. So of course we we um have a standard that secure journeys personnel must meet and that includes training qualifications. So some of those um measurements are in the contract. Yes. So we explicitly ask that secure journeys personnel have particular requirements of training and qualifications. So when we talk about standards that encompasses their training and their qualifications to to ensure that they're meeting the safety and security requirements of the contract.
>> Perfect. Thank you. Thanks.
>> Thank you. That does conclude the time that we've got now as I indicated uh when we resume. So, thank you very much for your succinct answers for this evening and the shorter time that we had. Appreciate it. Uh we will uh now suspend very briefly while we welcome our next witnesses to the table. Thank