Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee, , 7:03:02 to 7:32:45
Officials discuss the establishment of the road user charging task force and analyze the recent increase in national road fatalities and heavy vehicle incidents.
Topics: Fuel excise, Public safety, Infrastructure
Speakers: Matthew Canavan, Marisa Purvis-Smith, Jessica Hall, Speaker 45, Unknown Speaker, Hon Matthew Canavan, Interjection, Jim Betts, Matt O'Sullivan, Megan Scott, Senator Matthew Canavan, Speaker 11, Speaker 36, Speaker 43, Speaker 44, Speaker 46, Speaker 47, Speaker 48, Speaker 49
>> Okay. All right. I might move on. Um just got some questions about the road user charging task force. Um so the department's apparently established a road user charging task force. Is that correct?
>> Yes, senator.
>> Okay. When was that established?
>> Uh September 2025. if we were given lead
>> Okay.
>> Uh that's correct. We were given lead responsibility in September 2025 and then the task force itself was established in December 2025.
>> Right. Okay. And was that at the request of Treasury? It
>> was a government decision.
>> Right. Um how many staff are employed in
Daniel Russo, Assistant Secretary Roa Charging Task Force. Um, if you just let me find that number >> uh 12.4 uh currently, Senator.
>> Okay. And um are they all from your department or there any other
>> just from this department? Senator,
>> none secondered from other departments. >> Okay. Um uh does a task force report within this department?
>> Yes, Senator.
>> Yes, Senator.
>> Okay. How much is the budget for the
>> Uh so the government committed in my EO $7.6 million over 3 years uh from mid 2025 26 financial year. Um so yeah, it's a it's a three-year funding commitment.
>> Okay. Uh is there a terms of reference for the task force? >> No, Senator. Uh is it uh is a task force covering um potential charging for both passenger vehicles and heavy vehicles?
>> Uh yes, both the work is happening in parallel.
>> Okay. Um uh does it with the passenger vehicle question is that restricted to just EVs?
>> Uh the department senators made it clear that the work on the road user charging is for electric vehicles. It's not intended to apply any further charges to fuel vehicles.
>> If I can clarify, to ICE vehicles. So, I don't think a decision's been taken about vehicles that have both electrification and uh internal combustion engine, sorry, hybrids. Okay. But certainly, there have been statements from the government that this won't be a double tax on vehicles that are subject to uh ICE vehicles.
>> Yeah. So, those that are not using any batteries at all and having to fill up for all of their power and pay the excise, they're excluded. That's right. Hybrids and electrics are potentially in well are in scope. Um uh okay. Um uh how are you are you engaging with other government agencies on this matter?
>> Uh yes senator. We're working very closely with departments of treasury department of climate change um on this
>> Okay. Is there an IDC on the issue or
>> uh we have um
>> I can't think of what it's called. It's I am chairing a steering committee with department of treasury. We meet fortnightly.
>> Right. So you meet fortnightly. It might not be formally and it's a departmental committee as such but >> Okay. Who's on that? Uh uh what did you describe it as? Sorry. >> Steering committee. >> Steering committ steering. Who which
chair that and it's um the lead area from the treasury as well
>> just the two of you. No
>> at this stage. Yes. So and then we are working with other agencies but those regular meetings are between us and
>> Okay. All right. Okay. Um they're obviously keen on the revenue. All right. Okay. Uh with is this task force looking at the fuel excise situation like what's happening to it modeling it
>> Senator fuel excise remains a primary responsibility of of
>> So Treasury is doing that work are they looking at
>> the work work will be informed by revenue projections.
>> Sorry I missed that.
>> The work will be informed by
>> Yeah. Okay. But that's staying within Treasury is it? Okay. Come back to them later in the week. All right. Um I think that's it for that one. Moving on to uh the speed limits. Just a quick one. Uh last time we covered the proposal of the lower speed limits and rural roads. Thankfully, sanity prevailed and Senator still got his way. It's been dumped. Uh but I did um if only he was more powerful, much servant. >> Um uh I'm just referring Well, I wanted to know how we you did tell us last time that Asel Allen had done the rectory impact assessment. How much did that
Uh, Senator Stephanie Wernern, First Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth Infrastructure Projects Division. Um the Asil Allen consulting contract value was $644,3231
>> and that's been paid. Is that how much
>> Um no. So to date the department has paid one milestone for the delivery of the consultation and regulatory impact assessment to the value of $188,319. final costs will be released in due course in finalizing the contract in line with the Eden decision that no further work would be undertaken on the topic.
>> So was the the original 644 did that was that going to include a final regulatory impact assessment as well? I believe was the draft that was released and we saw
>> that's an understanding but we'll come back and um
>> sorry I just I'm struggling to hear
>> That is my understanding but we'll take that on notice.
>> Okay. All right. And and are you presumably negotiating with ASEL at the moment? How much you're left owing?
>> That's correct.
>> So we may end up having to pay money for something we don't get any work from.
>> No.
>> To break the contract, so to speak.
>> We would simply pay for the work that they've done.
>> Right. So, but they don't get but they did sign a contract for 644. So there's nothing. If I were them, I'd want some kind of
>> Senator
>> compensation for the contract being
broken. Well, the contract payments are based on meeting milestones. So,
>> yes, but >> the further milestones you ended was it was the government's decision not to continue with those milestones, not as Allen's.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So, there's no liability for the Comwalth under the contract to for having done that.
>> We'd have to take that on notice, which I don't have the contract in front of
me. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, um, as I say, if I was in Ail's shoes, I'd definitely be a bit um upset. Um, okay. All right. Um, uh, good. At least it's dead. That's the main thing. Um, all right. Moving on to, uh, road safety. Um, I just wanted, we we did touch this a little bit earlier, but only in regards to the Bruce. More generally, though, um, what's been happening with, uh, road fatalities on Australian roads in recent years? Do we have 20 data for 2025 yet? For the full year?
>> We do, Senator. So, Senator, for the 2025 calendar year to 31 December 2025, there have been 1,314 road deaths, which is 1.7% higher than the same period for 2024.
>> Right. Okay. That's a >> shame. Sorry, Senator.
>> First time over 1300, I think.
>> Is that right?
>> No,
>> sorry. It's not the first time it's over 1300. It's sitting around 1300 on average probably around the last 10 years, but it goes up and down. But the 1.7% um growth is actually been lower than it was back in 2024, which was around 3%.
>> Right. Okay. So, sorry. Oh, I was What do you have a long-term average? I mean maybe 10 years or what what do you calculate a because as you say can bump up and down obviously
>> is there some arbitrary colleagues um can um provide one they can
George O Keenan, assistant secretary. Um I don't have a long-term average, but it won't take me long to get that for you, so I'll just stay here. My
>> my rough um um memory here says that since 20 since the pandemic really there has been a significant increase in road deaths. Is that roughly correct?
>> There was certainly a dip during the pandemic years and it's been climbing up since then.
>> All right. Um, is there any work underway to try and understand why that's happening?
>> Yeah, the bureau um and my colleagues are constantly reviewing the data that comes in month by month. Um, yeah, to look for any new patterns or trends. Um, so yes, we're certainly always looking at that. Um, our I can go into just a high level um, uh, analysis if you like. Um we're certainly seeing the standard trends that have been there for a long time around um larger numbers of men um being killed in road crashes um uh motorcyclists, that sort of thing. Um and and perhaps some emerging trends around um more behavioral issues.
>> Right. Okay.
>> So, we're seeing increases in fatigue. Um speed is obviously um a perennial issue. Um increases in lack of seat belts. Um where u we've seen an uptick in children especially between the ages of zero and seven and people over the age of 75 and we've seen an uptick in vulnerable users as well. But the predominant um issue has been that what we have identified has been um uh users um breaking the law. Um especially in regards to speeding in reduced speed zones and also in regards to um uh um not wearing their seat belts. Obviously um though where there have been cameras that has seems to have made a difference um and in rural and regional areas that um I think for one of the first times combined outside urban centers has been a major uptick as well.
>> Right. Okay. Um Okay. Uh what about heavy vehicle um uh incidents? Do you collect data on that?
>> Uh we do. Yes. Um, I'm just going to
>> Is that going up as well?
>> Um, yeah, the bureau publishes a quarterly analysis of heavy vehicle so yes so over the last four years so looking at that kind of postco um time frame there's been an increase of 12.9% um in the numbers of deaths each year.
>> Sorry is that truckies or accident
any um deaths involving a heavy vehicle.
So it may not be the truck driver. It could be
>> could be any
>> someone else involved in the accident. >> Um and injuries too. They're going up as
>> U injuries are trending up in the same
>> Yeah. Right. Um okay. Have has there been any investigations of what's
>> Um the injury data is a little bit trickier. Um it doesn't flow to us in the same way as the um the road deaths data. um it takes a lot more analysis and cleaning up by the states and territories. Um it involves hospitals and other um state agencies. So that takes longer to to come through. Um but yes um
>> right
>> we're seeing the same sorts of patterns.
>> Okay. Okay. Um there was a report on the ABC uh couple of days ago, a few days ago, which raised the prospect that they dismissed this prospect, but they raised the issue that perhaps the increase in heavy vehicle uh incidents was a result of untrained uh truck drivers, particularly from overseas. Is that something you're looking at at all?
>> That's not something that the bureau collects data on.
>> Okay. There have been a number of high-profile incidents in the United States in recent in the last year or so of uh drivers from overseas not seemingly properly trained. But is there no work on this being done?
>> Uh there is work being done and it's being done through OSROS reporting into the infrastructure and transport ministers meeting and I think um a report from Austral is due later on this
>> What's that report about?
>> A heavy vehicle driver competency framework. precisely these issues
>> and potentially looking at the employment of untrained or inexperienced drivers.
>> Well, it would start off by looking at the competencies and then work back from
>> Right. Because I presume like most and I'm not my defer to the chair here who knows a lot more, but I presume the truck industry is facing labor shortages like many other industries at the moment.
>> Indeed. And an aging workforce. That is true. Um the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator will be um here tonight and they
>> Okay, so they are they overseeing this
work, are they? they they obviously have a critical role in terms of uh policing the safety of the industry. So they'd have good data and good insights on it.
>> All right. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. It's very useful. Thank you. Um okay. Uh I think I'm going to move on to sort of airports now. So, as I tried to group these for you, uh, and chair, I think we might be able to wrap up from Well, you don't mind being flexible again? >> Before the break.
>> Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
>> Probably no more than 20 minutes left. Oh, you've got a couple as well. >> Okay, we'll see how I go.
>> All right, let's give it a crack.
>> Yep. Um, so Air Service Australia first or I know they're on later tonight, but this is a more of a policy question. Um, there's a report in the Australian Financial Review. There was a report in the end of December about uh uh the potential for a $2 billion privatization uh of presumably um infrastructure and services at airports. Uh is that being is that something being considered by the government at the moment?
>> Senator, I would um I would ask that you ask Air Services Australia and the reason is that they do have something in the market at the moment, >> right? uh and any information on that is market sensitive. They know what they have put into the market um and will be able to tell you uh about that without unintentionally providing any additional market sensitive while they're in the middle of uh a process in the market. So I'm not I I just don't want to
>> Yeah, I don't really want I get that and I will come back to I don't really want to go to the process or the details. I suppose I'm given the size of the money here. Is that something that the minister or the department's been consulted about by your service Australia that
discussions with them? They have been in discussions with us. There has been no decision >> made at this point in time. So it's it's
>> air services will talk you through the detail of it. But I I would uh it's worth challenging the characterization of privatization here. We're in no way talking about the privatization of services currently operated by ASA but perhaps about access to private capital for the purposes of asset renewal and that's something they can talk about in detail.
>> Well, I'm happy to give you an opportunity as well. I mean, as I say, this is I get that they'll be running it or running a market process as you put it, but as you say, um, yeah, there has been consultation. So what exactly are they looking at selling off?
>> Again, uh Senator, I' I'd uh prefer them to take you through the detail. Uh uh the secretary is accurate though. It is not privatization. Uh it is it is a way to to to fund and get capital for uh for for infrastructure renewal. So they they will be able to take you through that. and I don't want to uh say anything that might unintentionally put additional information into the market.
>> Do they It sounds like they're doing a market sounding and colloquial terms, but um before they make any decision uh to sell things off, does the minister need to approve that?
>> So again, I'm not sure I'd characterize it as selling things off. Uh just to be clear on the record,
>> that's why I'm correcting it because
it's wrong. Uh just just to be clear. Um uh but no decision has been made by the minister. They're in early
>> I'm just Yeah, but that's all I wanted to ask. So the minister would have to sign off on it, would she?
>> The minister's not made any decision.
>> But it couldn't just be done by air service Australia on their own.
>> Depends. It depends what it is development, but they have been
>> But you're expecting by the sounds of it having to be a government decision ultimately. What are the uh infrastructure renewal? There's um in that AFR article, there's talk of the need for $8 billion in capital improvements. What's that? Uh
>> so again, I I uh air service will be able to take you through uh the the material. What they're specifically looking at with this process though is in relation to uh the the the firefighting equipment.
>> Okay. Right. Right. Okay. We'll go to the detail for them. I'm just I know you're not characterizing as privatization, but does it involve potentially air traffic control services not being run by public agencies?
>> That is not
>> definitely not rule that out.
>> And it doesn't involve firefighting being run by anything other than the public sector.
>> Right. Okay. >> Um what about aviation rescue operations? Would they be
>> So anyway, the detail
>> air services will be able to take you through the detail.
>> Okay. I don't I just when I read I'm a little bit concerned that some of these crucial public services are potentially being considered to go into private hands. So we could rule that out. That would just more reassure me.
>> As we as we say it's it's not a privatization senate.
>> Okay. All right. Um uh okay. Um yep. You might make Glenn angry again if she goes down that path. >> I said they might make you angry again if they go down that path. >> I'll tell us all. Um uh just going to bilateral agree services agreements. Um the government has finally tabled a response to the select committee on those. Um uh so I've got a lot of questions I might take on I might put on notice questions about could you provide detail on um which organizations and stakeholders the government consulted on in regards to bilateral service agreements with Hong Kong, Malaysia, Turkey, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Chile, Canada, Latvia, Mongolia and Rwanda? Please.
>> Uh we can you saying that you will put
that on notes? I'll put that on I'll put on notes now otherwise we'll take too long. Um if that's okay. Um when did the light government last consult with Qatar
>> Uh so I will hand over to Mr. Wolfe to take you through uh where that's up to. My understanding is that we are in we are in discussions uh with on on on that particular bilateral agreement.
>> Um Jim Wolfe assistant secretary international aviation. Uh yeah that's correct. We're we're in discussions with
>> Okay. But you what does that mean? You close to getting a bilateral agreement with Qatar?
>> Uh we don't reveal the nature of our discussions at the moment, Senator. But uh once we reach the conclusion, we will make a formal announcement.
uh how many of the select committee's recommendations have been fully implemented as of now? Maybe while you're looking for that, I'm also interested to know uh how many recommendations from the committee, the select committee did the government not
>> We can take that on notice if you like, Senator. I know that I don't have that in front of me.
>> All right, let's take that on not keep going. Try and get that done before the break. Um uh apparently is a consumer obbitman scheme about to commence or has it commenced?
>> Uh the the government is undertaking or we are undertaking consultation in relation to the government's uh proposal in relation to a consumer ombbudsman and regulator. Uh we're in the middle of uh um Miss Palmer who has just come to the table might be able to and Mr. Mah might be able to give you a bit more detail.
>> So commitment in the aviation white paper back in 2024 um as Miss Pervvis Smith has explained um we're going through process of consultation with view to uh our government bringing forward some proposals in due course. anything you want to add to that sir?
>> Samantha Palmer uh interim aviation consumer ombbuds person might be best to um talk to my colleague Mr. Mah who's joined as he has the consumer protection framework within which the ombbed scheme and the regulator sits
>> Ben assistant secretary Sydney airport um slots and uh aviation consumer reforms. Um, Senator, um, uh, since the, uh, aviation white paper was released, uh, in this commitment last August, there have been three consultation processes. The most, uh, recent of which was, uh, last October. Um, a detailed consultation process that outlined the proposed uh, framework and drew on earlier consultations was released. Um, uh, that closed in November. Um, we're working through the detail of that. Um there have been public statements by the minister uh referring to uh legislating the framework um this year.
>> This year. Okay. Uh is there any consideration um to a bridging sort of scheme before it's set up?
>> um that would be difficult I think without legislation, Senator.
>> Okay. All right. We need that. Okay. Um just on slots then. Uh what's the latest with the the Sydney slot manager and the reforms there?
Um so uh Senator those reforms uh were legislated uh uh to think uh on the 26th of October last year. Um uh that uh was the final uh uh suite of uh reforms uh to Sydney airport demand management. Um the final element uh is the appointment of a independent compliance committee um that uh we undertook that uh recruitment process uh towards the end of that uh last year uh and a decision will be made uh an announcement will be made shortly.
>> Okay. All right. Okay. Well, we'll wait for that. Um just going to the strategic fleet. Where are we up to there? We got
Senator, um I I will be unable to tell
you >> long a bit longer.
>> Senator, I'm unable to tell you where we're up to. We're still going through the process. Uh similar to to our testimony last time. Um
>> so nothing's happened.
>> Uh Senator, we would lots >> lots has happened, but not something
>> All right. Okay. Uh it seems to be going on for a long time. Uh when did the
>> I'll let my colleagues go through.
>> Um Andrew Johnson, assistant secretary, strategic fleet. Um the um the strategic fleet um pilot tender was released on 6th September 2024 and closed on 29 November 2024.
>> Okay. All right. Well, hopefully get it done before two years. Maybe next time you'll have something to announce. Might move on. Um, uh, I might let because I know Senator Colbeck had some questions. You want to do yours? >> Couple ones. And then I've got
>> We haven't spoken about that for a >> I said we haven't spoken about that for
Can I just um we had a question before by David PCO on whether the ACT had or New South Wales had asked any questions about rail and I said I'd get back to him. I'm conscious that he's not here. Um so New South Wales has reached out to us on funding for and potential um upgrades on the railway line between CRA and Sydney. So I just wanted to >> not fast rail faster >> but not faster rail just upgrades. So I just wanted to make sure that I said I him I know he's not you but >> sorry chair if I can before you um leave
can you also just check I stated that we hadn't that about round the road deaths had been over 1300 was the first time I've just gone through my data and that's what I can see so if you just
check that >> for you as well
>> in 10 years that it's first time over >> not that I'm at all happy about that of
>> Tasmanian freight equalization scheme
>> frequization
uh BR passenger vehicle equalization do do has the independent review process system of receiving submissions. How many submissions have been received? We
have Senator um as at the 9th of February, we've had 52 submissions provided from a discussion paper that was released in December of last year and closed on the 30th of January this year. We also accepted some late submissions. >> That's correct. >> We do between the 11th and the 13th. So
is there a what form is that
>> Uh the Hobart LCS and Bernie is in person. Uh and the King Island and Flenders on the 25th of February is a virtual session. I
>> I get that. But what's the format for the processes? Uh is it for the panel to submissions or is it for them to give information out?
>> It's both. It will be an exchange of information between the reviewers and the participants.
some information that will be provided
to the submitters? uh they will refer back to um the discussion paper that was released in December. >> largely. Yes. And any other questions that the reviewers might have um considered in the meantime that they want to test with stakeholders.
So, so it'll be an exchange based on the review paper submissions received by the panel and there and and then a process off the back of those uh two elements.
>> Yes, that's correct.
>> No, I think I think that's a break and then we Sorry for this.