Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:49:31 to 1:56:49
Examination of air traffic control rostering practices, training simulator implementation, and staff deployment at Sydney and Western Sydney airports.
Topics: Public service staffing, Workplace culture
Speakers: Senator Bridget McKenzie, Rob Sharp, Peter Curran, Unknown Speaker
>> Thank you, Senator Payne. Mr. Curran, Air Services Deputy Chief Executive. Um we we put in place a a new roster as of the 1st of September in in Sydney Tower, um which um uh gave us some more um options around the way that we were deploying our staff.
>> So, what changed?
>> We We also um uh um we're we're able to deploy some of the staff that were uh deployed elsewhere in the Sydney Basin that had previously worked at Kingsford Smith back to Kingsford Smith, and that gave us some additional resources.
>> How many?
>> Uh there was a a total of four FTE, full-time equivalent, uh that we were able to to to move back uh on a temporary basis. Um important
>> Mr. Curran, can I just ask, the only change you made to rostering practices as a result of the Minister calling you in was to get four FTEs back into the Sydney Tower?
>> No, no, Senator. I'm I I If I may also add a few a few more
>> Uh we're just on limited time, so I know that the verbose answers are your specialty. Let's just cut to the chase.
>> in place some significant uh investment um around our training program, and in particular we've acquired a an additional simulator for Sydney Tower, so we now have two simulators to do more training um uh downstairs in situ in in Sydney, um which increases the throughput. Uh uh um there are limits on how many people you can train in a control tower at any given time. Um uh so that that allows us to take more training downstairs and less uh uh on the job uh potentially.
>> And how When's that in When's that
>> The first simulator has been implemented, um and the second simulator is in situ being set up now. Um it'll be operational uh for the first course next year.
>> Okay, so I want to understand why you had to wait to be hauled into the minister to get the four AFT back in and when why you couldn't have just done that immediately after August the 10th.
>> Well, Senator, I think it's it's fair to say that some of the challenges that we had in in July and August had us looking at some of our deployment practices and we would we were working toward some of these changes, but but certainly we redoubled our efforts.
>> with your deployment practices?
>> Um with regard to where we had staff at the airport.
>> Where did you have them?
>> Uh they were deployed to Western Sydney Airport.
>> Where nobody was taking off or landing.
>> Not during the day, but at night time. That's that's right.
>> flights.
>> That's correct. Yes, so we're able to
>> How many freight flights at Western Sydney Airport?
Monday to Friday, approximately 20 to 25
>> And so the four you've taken out of Western Sydney Airport, you've put them back into Kingsford Smith on a temporary basis?
>> What we practically did, Senator, is we were able to to use people between the two locations, so they maintained their recency, their currency in both locations.
>> So they're not location dependent.
>> Uh they were able to work between both locations.
Um a in the period following the meeting with Minister King, a further three near miss events occurred at Sydney Airport. The report released by the ATSB today indicates an air traffic control operator in at the tower with a high predicted fatigue level during 17th of August near miss incident. Would that controller have been in the tower under the improved rostering practices implemented in September?
>> Uh Senator, all of the rostering practices affect all of the staff in in Kingsford Smith Tower, so the answer is
>> On the 30th of September, the minister announced the the of Sydney Airport air Traffic Control Independent Assurance Panel. Whose idea was it to establish the panel and were you consulted on its establishment?
>> Uh Senator, yes, we were consulted on that. Uh I was looking at a scenario where we could have some independence to give the board some comfort around the work that management was doing. Uh at the same time the department and minister were also looking for an option to provide that independence. And so we had some input to that process, but ultimately it sits with the department and the minister. And we're And we're
>> But whose idea Who brought the idea to
>> Uh I briefed the department on the concept I had for briefing our board.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and then the conversation commenced from there.
>> Okay. So what does the panel do on a day-to-day basis? Does it interact with ASA management?
>> The ministerial appointed panel has a terms of reference that was agreed with the department and the minister. Uh it's got a very specific brief. It'll review those incidents. It'll review the ATSB reports, the CASA review that's underway. They'll also do their own assurance activity in terms of interviewing, but the actual terms of reference so you'd you'd need to talk [clears throat] to the department specifically about. But at a high level Senator, that's the the nature of the the activities.
>> So the terms of reference for the panel, was that agreed with Air Services Australia as well or was that
>> We've had input to it, but it was really driven by the department and the minister that particular panel.
>> The the terms of reference. >> So let me get this right. The minister does the right thing, hauls you in and you're now claiming credit for the panel getting set up.
>> No, I'm not claiming you asked me to do
>> the bright Whose bright idea was it?
>> I raised a concept for the board and then there was a conversation more broadly around independent review. I'm not taking credit for it. I was talking specifically to the process, Senator.
>> Where the bright idea came from Air Services Australia, but anyway, the concept. Um does the panel report directly to the minister? If so, how frequently?
>> Uh my understanding is that the report there it's a matter for the department cuz the department's actually managing the day-to-day contracts. >> [clears throat] >> We have as yet to meet with them. I think Mr. Curran and I are actually meeting with them later this week.
>> Right.
>> so we'll have a bit more insight as to how the the assurance panel is proposing to approach these activities.
>> And the reporting for the assurance panel does it go to the minister with noting to ASA or how how do you envisage the reporting of the panel to? >> Uh given that's with the department,
they I'm sure there'll be a draft report at the end that would be we we'd be consulted on. When I say consulted on uh similar to ATSB or a CASA review uh we we would provide any commentary typically around actions or missions or errors that might And then I believe that will be shared with the board of Air Services.
What was the budget What is the budget for the panel over its first 6 months of operation?
>> to refer to the department. I haven't been involved in that process.
>> So it's not being funded by Air Services Australia?