Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 36:08 to 44:30
Luke Sheehy of Universities Australia expresses support for ATEC while highlighting concerns regarding student debt and the failure of the Job-Ready Graduates policy.
Topics: Education, Integrity
Speakers: Luke Sheehy, Mehreen Faruqi, Marielle Smith, Unknown Speaker
>> Senator Fuki, that's great. I'm keen to move to the next witness if senators are happy to do so then try and catch up some time. Um but thank you very much to you all for um participating in our hearing and also for the submissions you make. We really appreciate your firm engagement. I don't think you took Quans but if you did uh Friday the 20th of February is when we're asking for them back. But thank you so much. Um and I'd now like to call Mr. Shay from Universities Australia to the table. She sorry Mr. Shehy. Mhm. >> It It's been two very long days and nights as an estimates accent. >> I I won't put you through that. Um Mr. Ch, we are asking if you have an opening statement if you'd be happy to table it for us.
>> I do have an opening statement and I am happy to to table it, but I do think if I can read an extract from the first two pages, it might contextualize Universities Australia's position for If I may, I will be very brief. Chair, I
understand you're >> a lot of questions. That's all which
>> but I think it's important to to demonstrate sectorwide position. >> Um well, thank you. My name is Luke Shei and I am the chief executive officer of Universities Australia. Thank you to the committee for the invitation to appear today. Uh Universities Australia represents Australia's 38 comprehensive universities. Can I be very clear about our position? Universities Australia supports the establishment of an Australian Tertiary Education Commission. We support the objective of long-term stewardship and we want this reform to succeed. But for that to happen, the bill before the Parliament must be strengthened. Our recommendations are measured and practical. They do not ask much of government or the taxpayer. They simply ask for settings required to make the ATH more effective. And there are six of them. First, the Ache must be properly staffed. Two full-time and one part-time commissioner is not sufficient to steward reforms of this scale and complexity. A body charged with guiding systemwide transformation needs depth, capacity, and continuity commenurate with its Mans. Secondly, the ATH must be able to publish its advice and recommendations without ministerial approval. An expert advis advisory body adds value through frank transparent advice. Filtering its output undermines confidence in its independence and ultimately in the usefulness to government, the sector and the Australian public. Third, the ATH must be able to initiate its own research and inquiries. If it can examine only issues at the minister's discretion, it risks becoming reactive and political. Fourth, the Ache needs a full mandate on university funding. Limiting its role to examination of Commonwealth contributions alone constrains its ability to provide comprehensive system level advice and risks entrenching the very funding settings that are saddling students with excessive debts under the job ready graduates package. Fifth, the Ache should control its own staffing and consultancy arrangements. This is to ensure that it can deliver credible highquality advice and ensure that it has the right expertise at the right time. And finally, uh there should be guard rails on the development and implementation of missionbased compacts. The proposed model appears to give the government unprecedented influence over university operations without adequate parliamentary oversight. This does risk narrowing institutional diversity, dampening innovation, and ultimately weakening system performance. The opposite, we think, of what the accord envisaged, to futureproof Australia for the challenges ahead. Can I reiterate that the Universities Australia with our colleagues right across the sector and the National Tertiary Education Union support an ATH support stewardship uh and support independence but we also want to improve and strengthen this bill from the outset. That's been clear from our our friends right across the sector including the group of eight universities in the IU who you've just spoken to the technology- based universities and the regional universities. I'm happy to answer any questions now chair.
>> Thank you. Um Senator Freaki, you have the call first. I'll give you a nudge for last question. Thank you.
>> Yeah, thank you chair. Uh thank you Mr. Shei. Um I mean based on what you've said, I have gathered that in your view the current uh a tech model in front of us does not deliver on the vision of the accord. Am I right in making that assumption from what you've said?
Senator Faruqi, that's um we believe that the ATH model is a good one um in terms of what's outlined in the university's accord. We think the bill just needs to be strengthened to to better align with the recommendations from Mary O'Kane and her panel. Uh that report was released two years ago and we've had a lot of consultation with the government since then through different forums. uh and a lot of our recommendations are yet to be realized in this bill but we can improve this bill and we can improve it through very modest and sensible amendments. The
government has said u many times that it like whenever this JR job ready graduates had come up has come up that a tech once it's set up we'll have a look at um reforming job ready graduates but we do know that a tech is only going to look at the commonwealth contributions and not at student contributions so that it could take years honestly to get to that. I mean, what recommendations do you want in this bill to be changed to be able to have more of a say on how what students pay?
>> Yeah. Well, one of the limitations of the bill as drafted is that the ATH wouldn't be able to look at the student contribution, and we think that is a shortcoming. University students, particularly those in three-year arts and humanities degrees, are facing bills of more than $50,000. That is completely unfair. JRG is a failed policy that has been recognized by the Labor Party. That's been recognized by people across our sector and policy experts. We want to see it gone. We want to see it gone as quickly as possible. We because we want to see those barriers to university education come down. I think many Australians don't realize that it's the Commonwealth government that actually sets the fees for students for Australian students in our universities. And we've yet to see JRG go. And what we're seeing now is uh student fees increase and increase. While it's very very good that we've seen a discount on their debts, future students are still going to get those debts. And we want to make sure that an independent um a tertiary education commission that is free from the political cycle can make honest and frank recommendations about what a student should pay. Australian students pay some of the highest fees in the world and we're putting up barriers. So, you know, if we want to grow our sector, which is the aspiration of the accord, >> to see a million more students by 2050, 50 $60,000 for a for a three-year humanities or arts degree, that is just simply unfair. So, the ATE should be empowered to make the recommendations to government as to what students should pay.
>> Yes. But do you believe that the J is really urgent and needs to be looked at?
Forgive me for smiling uh Senator Faruqi because I've been saying this for a number of years and it is a failed policy. Uh and I think I think everyone recognizes it and the accord final report as I say handed down two years ago Nelly uh made that point very very clear. Uh it is time to to to remove JRG and replace it with something that is fairer. There is a strange irony that students are paying more than $50,000 for a for an arts degree while universities get nearly a billion dollars less each and every year under the JRG model. An independent A tech that has the capacity and the remmit to look at that is a really important part of why we support an Ache and why we support stewardship.