Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 5:51:14 to 6:45:12
Further questioning on ISIS bride repatriation, passport security, and human rights in Bangladesh and Pakistan.
Topics: National security, Human rights, Diplomatic events
Speakers: Hon Penny Wong, Hon Sarah Henderson, Mehreen Faruqi, Inderpal Sidhu, Jamie Isbister, Jan Adams AO PSM, Paul Griffiths, Raff Ciccone, Steve Scott
chair uh minister. So I wanted to ask about the 15th of August 2025 letter to the minister for home affairs uh in which uh uh it was referred to save the children uh and that outlined that the US government has offered to provide support for repatriations in the near term and these are of course repatriations of ISIS brides and their children. The support will be provided by combined joint task force operation inherent resolve Syria TCN repatriations team. This offer is a timebound one with no guarantee of support beyond September. I'm just wondering if you are able to advise us if this repatriation support is still available.
>> Sorry, this is a letter to not to me, it's to
>> no to the Minister for Home Affairs.
Oh, I'm not sure we can >> assist with that, Senator.
>> Well, it it refers to uh the combined joint task force operation inherent resolve Syria TCN repatriations team. So, what I'm seeking is are you able to tell us whether that repatriation support from that team is still >> Could you if you could take it on notice if you're Thank you. But I I'm also
unclear if if it's a >> you said it was a US letter.
>> It refers to the US government has offered to provide support for repatriations in the near term. So given
>> this letter was tabled in home affairs.
>> Uh I assume it was tabled through the department of home affairs. Yes. >> Yes, that's right. I've just had that
confirmed. Well, um I will Did you Sorry, I'm not trying to make a point here, but did did you ask them?
>> Uh no, I appreciate I appreciate that. asking is about your knowledge and the department the the involvement of the department.
>> Sure. In relation Sorry, you finish. in
relation to that matter.
>> Uh we can take on notice, see if there's anything that we can usefully pro provide. The re the reason I asked if you asked them is obviously they might be able to provide more information.
>> I So I guess what I'm trying to understand is whether the US-led operation inherent resolve and the support that it offers is still
It's not something that uh DEFAD has been involved in, but I also note that uh situation in Syria has of course changed since then.
>> All right. Well, if you could take that on notice, I'd be grateful. Thank you.
>> just so we can coordinate. Did you ask the question in legal and con?
>> I would um need to check on that,
That's fine. I know there's day. >> We will talk to them. That's fine.
>> I I I am trying to wave wave my magic wand, but I can't be in all committees at all times. Can I ask?
>> Feels like you are sometimes, [laughter] >> but feels like you might be one of the few. Sorry, Senator Collins. You too.
>> Senator Collins has been doing a mighty job. have as have all and Senator Smith as have all coalition senators.
>> All the team this time, right?
>> We're managing to above your weight. >> We're managing to multitask very well. You might notice. >> Uh so I'm just wondering if you have an anticipated deadline >> as to when the ISIS brides cohort >> uh will have all returned to Australia. Now, we did discuss this extensively at the last estimates. >> What can you tell us about
Senator, we have no further information uh or uh advice to offer since last estimates.
>> So, you've got no knowledge whatsoever. No one in your department.
>> Sorry, perhaps I should ask you to repeat the question.
>> You have got no knowledge. No one in your department has got any knowledge >> the return of any further ISIS brides apart from the ones who returned with their children last year. Well, I think
as was said earlier today, uh the we are aware of the people in the displaced person's camps uh who uh have long held uh desires of some of them to return. That's what we've said many
>> Yes. But there was also evidence given that there were there were plans of foot and certainly there were reports to that effect for further cohorts of ISIS brides and their >> children to return to Australia. So I'm just seeking information as to what your department knows Miss Adams. So,
Senator, um the we are aware of media reports uh that that relate to uh you
know potential plans of foot, but um Senator uh our >> [clears throat] >> uh testimony has consistently been that we have been long aware of uh of the desire of uh these women and children to
And when do the government decide on the policy of so-called self-managed returns with the support of non-government third parties like save the children?
>> Sorry, Senator, there there is no policy as such as foreign minister said earlier. Uh we have long been aware of individuals in internally displaced persons camps in Syria with an intention to return to Australia. Well, this was
>> Yeah. If you could the obviously the prime minister made reference to the fact that the government's position was that there would be self-managed returns.
>> No. [clears throat] So, sorry you may have been away, but I did cover this with Senator Cash, but I'm happy to cover it again. It's not that there there is a policy not of not repatriating. So, no government assisted repatriation. Secondly, [snorts] uh like as is the case under your was your case under your government and your ministers were clear about this as well. Uh it is also the case that Australians uh in these situations may seek to return um uh in what we've described as a self-managed return. Uh and that I think a number of them returned whilst you're in government. uh and uh the government's been upfront that you know that is uh something people are aware of. Uh I've referred to Senator Cash to the evidence of the AFP about um uh security agencies being positioned to handle any such so self-managed returns if if that in indeed occurred. We also responded to Senator Cash in relation to Save the Children where I indicated that I had not met with them in relation to this issue as foreign minister. But just to
be clear, your government is content and happy and and has a position that third party organizations may assist repatriation. Is that correct?
>> Uh I don't think that's the phy the way I would describe it. Um of the government. Sorry, Senator, I hadn't You asked me a question. I think I'm entitled to respond. Yeah. Um that that is not the way I would describe it. You know, uh that Australian citizens um have various entitlements which are not discretionary uh under law and no government um is is able to make them discretionary.
>> with respect, that wasn't the question.
Well, no, no, but it is because it it assumes an active decision. I'm making a point that the legal framework and the constitutional framework has gives people certain rights and obligations. What I said to Senator Cash, I I reference was this that I I referenced the AFP commissioner's evidence in October where she said that she wanted to provide assurance and confidence that the AFP remains appropriately prepared and positioned to respond to any self-managed returns from internally displaced camps. I also said to the senator uh particularly given her history that she would be aware of existing frameworks including what we call to temporary exclusion orders that Miss Foster in home affairs had confirmed earlier this week uh the uh the system of managing uh Australians of interests and I said that we our first priority is to keep Australians safe and that we will continue as a government to look at all the ways we can best ensure uh uh that safety
>> and and minister That's the core of the concerns that we're raising is that we are very concerned that these so-cis have been radicalized and are returning to this country and pose a community risk, a safety risk to particularly to communities where they settle. and of course since the last estimates we've had the tragic tragic Bondi terrorist attack and I just want to confirm your understanding minister that this was an attack inspired by ISIS ideology.
I I think the um Australian Federal Police Commissioner made that clear in the days and weeks after uh uh these
this dreadful situation, given the ongoing threat of radicalization of certain individuals in this country, is the government now considering changing its position where ISIS brides and their children, anyone potentially radicalized by ISIS ideology, will not be permitted to return to this country.
Well, Senator, the go that is what I am talking about. I think you you misrepresent the government's position.
>> I haven't misrepresented. I'm seeking to understand whether you are going to take action in relation to those who are potentially radicalized by ISIS ideology.
>> All right. Thank you, Minister.
>> I can finish now. I think you've misrepresented our position. >> Uh the I'm making three points. The first point is that uh just as your government you know [clears throat] sought to deal with this issue that there are um rights and obligations which acrew to Australian citizens which are not a matter of government policy or government discretion but they flow from uh people's constitutional rights and the example yeah you might recall the high court has had a fair bit to say about that. The second point I'd make is that it is the the AFP has given evidence about being positioned for this. The third point I'd make is that there are existing frameworks. They include for example as I said TEOS. These are matters for the for home affairs and I think Secretary Foster dealt with them. Uh my final point is that our first priority is to keep the Australian community safe and of course we will continue to look at ways we can
Minister, I I absolutely accept that citizens may have a right to return to Australia, but what I'm asking is what is your government doing uh particularly in relation to any policy changes concerning third parties which may be assisting these people because right now third parties and I would put to you that the government is allowing third parties to assist their return. And this is not something the Morrison government did. So again I say particularly with the risk of radicalization by ISIS ideology is the government taking any steps to limit prohibit uh any party from facilitating the return of ISIS brides to this country.
I think again I'd say our first priority is keeping the community safe and we'll continue to look at all the ways we can best ensure that in in [clears throat] relation to the spec specifics of your question now that I understand what you're asserting that would be something you would need to ask home affairs.
>> So I appreciate that home affairs obviously plays a central role.
>> No senator you can
>> I'm asking about the the policy changes
of your government. It is in the home affairs portfolio. I appreciate you weren't able to attend. You can put questions on notice about this. Uh but it is not the the policy responsibility of this go of this committee.
>> So minister what I'm asking is about third party organizations including those organizations that have foreign affairs funding through the through the department of foreign affairs and trade. Now I I've raised Save the Children. There may be other organizations, but is the government taking any steps whatsoever to place limitations on third party organizations facilitating the return of ISIS brides?
>> We we place limitations on what our funding can be used for. Now we can talk to you about that. So what we what we fund development partners or NOS's to do and we've had evidence about that today or you know in in relation to different organizations you know what we fund we are clear about what we are funding
>> no what I'm asking is
>> so for example I think
>> minister with respect that wasn't my
question but it is it is no because I'm >> I'm trying to be helpful I'm trying to
be helpful Senator Henderson, Senator Henderson, with respect, can you just let me manage the chamber at the u the >> It does actually. I'm glad you said that. And I think you know the minister would appreciate you respecting her and a minute. Just please please you are. >> Well, I'm the chair and I'm trying to manage the situation here and you keep interjecting. Now the the minister is trying to get an official here to answer your question. So let her do that. So,
Senator, I was actually trying to be helpful. You asked me a question which I pointed out was home affairs, and I appreciate you did not attend for the reasons you've said, but you can obviously put them on on on notice. Uh, what I I then said what we could talk to you about was when we fund uh uh NOS's de, you know, development uh entities, how we make sure we are clear about what we fund. So minister I'm hoping because that that is the flip side of your question.
>> No no minister with respect it's not because what I'm asking I'm not asking that question. I'm saying is your government taking any steps whatsoever to place limitations or prohibitions on third-party organizations which seek to return ISIS brides. I'm not asking for the scope as as to how these organizations are funded. I am specifically seeking your direct response in relation to whether you've taken action so that there's not an open door to third party organizations bringing back ISIS brides and their children particularly if they pose a risk to the Australian community.
>> You you are conflating a lot. >> You are conflating a lot.
>> I'm raising a serious concern that many
Australians >> silence chair. Well, you just said I'm conflating a lot. >> She doesn't want to listen to my responses. Can we move on? I listen to her in silence. I tried to be respectful.
Senator Henderson. Yeah, you can ask questions, of course. But you also need to let the minister also provide. >> Can you let me finish too? Otherwise, I will move the call along. Okay. So, we haven't got much time left and I appreciate everyone has other things on at the moment, but let's just get back to questions and answers.
Sorry to add Scott can respond to
>> Mr. Scott.
>> Uh Senator Henderson Steve Scott uh first assistant secretary humanitarian and civil society division the program through which save the children receives the majority of funding from us the uh ANCP Australian NGO cooperation program. Uh 202526 their um payments under that will be $8.4 million.
>> Mr. got sorry
>> seriously like I mean
>> this minister that is not
>> sorry sorry no no Senator Henderson okay we're going to suspend briefly thank you >> We're back. We're back everyone. Excellent. Now, where were we again? Oh, that's right. You're asking questions.
>> I'm just going to revise my questions. I'm just going to cut to the chase because we haven't got much time. So, Minister, is it the case that currently any organization can book a plane ticket for an ISIS bride to come here whenever they like and there's no issue with that? No prohibition, no restrictions.
>> We don't fund that.
>> No, but I'm asking
>> is is it illegal for someone to do that? Is that the question?
>> No. Is it the case that any currently that any organization can book a plane ticket for an ISIS bride uh or their children and that they can come to this country without any restriction or
I think I'd refer back to Senate my answer to you before Senator. I think there are two different sets of issues. one is uh the legal and constitutional framework which you're aware of uh and and my answer that you know we will continue to look at the ways in which we can keep the community safe in relation to your question that's a question for home affairs not for us we can answer in relation to development partners [snorts] and I was trying to be helpful by explaining to you that we fund uh in accordance with certain parameters I think Mr. Scott was about to tell you that [clears throat] we don't fund Save the Children, for example, for activities in Syria. That's what you cut him off from saying, which was why I was getting irritated at you not letting the official explain.
>> So, meaning just to clarify, meaning that Save the Children is not funded for any repatriation work, Mr. Scott,
>> from our programs, there's no funding for Save the Children to do repatriation
>> Okay. So, do they receive any other funding from the government to do
our program, Senator. Our programs do not fund Save the Children.
>> And how do you assure how how are you assured that they're not engaging in repatriation work, misusing their funding? Is there any checks and balances?
>> We have a rigorous accredititation process, Senator, for anyone that receives funding under our programs. Say the children have undertaken that. We have an annual granting mechanism to um we regularly assess all the programs that are being run. we can provide a list of the programs where Save the Children has received funding under the ANCP.
>> And I re I asked that because of course Minister Burke said in June last year uh when you had a meeting with Save the Children that he would help find a way to ensure ISIS brides could come back to Australia. So from your department's perspective, how are you ensuring that none of the funding is being misused such that organizations like say the children are misusing commonwealth funds to bring ISIS brides back to Australia?
>> So you conflate two things. The first is it's not reasonable to put to an official uh to you know as in the way that you did uh your assertion about what a minister in a different portfolio did. So I'm I'm asking you to exercise that part of the question. The second goes to what are the checks and balances around our framework for funding. Mr. Scott can go to that.
>> Thanks Minister.
>> And as I said for anyone to qualify for funding first actually an NGO has to be accredited with Akford the peak body for um NOS's in Australia and obviously Save the Children has gone through that. They have to be a member there for two years and then they can go through our approval process to be part of the ANCP and obviously save the children has been a member for a long time and that every 5 years that is renewed. They go through that accredititation process. We also have these grants are done on an annual basis. So we're reviewing the granting process every year and we do audits and checks on programs all the time and as I said we can provide details of the programs where we are funding save the children under this program. It is not
>> Thank you very much, Mr. Scott. Happy to take that further information on notice. Uh, Secretary, can you just confirm given the horrendous Islamic extremist terrorist attack in Bondi, will potential ISIS brides be subject to any security checks when applying for
uh Senator uh every person who applies for passports uh has uh a certain level of uh security assessment and uh so I guess the answer is yes.
>> So what about additional checks? So if you can identify that there are sprites coming from Syria or another part of that world, uh are there any additional security checks before passports are
Senator, um I think we've said previously that um uh you know any Australian under the passports act any Australian uh who meets eligibility requirements is entitled to a passport and those requirements go to citizenship and identity. uh where there are security concerns uh about a potential applicant uh they may be flagged by our security agencies in the system and those uh flagged applications will be referred to the security agencies for further checking.
>> If DEFAT discovers the application first through the passport system, do you then refer that to the security agencies or
to home affairs? Uh it would depend on the circumstances senator and it would depend on uh um for example as I explained if there is a flag.
>> So since Bondi uh has there been any change in your processes concerning the issuing of passports including to that
part of the world. So the process of issuing of passports is governed by legislation and uh and by a set of regulations that sit under the legislation. Uh those uh have not changed but obviously the processes uh there are processes in place uh that may allow for uh for this kind of checking.
>> So when you say there are processes in place that allow for this type of checking. So you've got some additional checks or policies.
>> No, they were as I described
>> again.
>> Sorry, I I just misheard miss. Sorry, your response, Miss Sadu. What did you
>> It was as I've just described.
>> See,
>> right, Minister. Sorry,
>> Senator. Um, again, this is probably a matter of home affairs. there is existing legislation uh and my recollection is this has been the subject of bipartisan legislation uh including when it's a through you know the uh PJC process so parliamentary joint committee intelligence and security around uh how these security issues are dealt with and the role that uh other entities in particular in the home affairs portfolio have
>> I appreciate the point you're making minister that's why I'm confining my questions to the role of DEFAT and that is the issuing of passports uh could I just uh ask the department to please update the committee on the situation in northeast Syria particularly regarding the Syrian Democratic Forces.
Yes, certainly, Senator. Um I might also ask my colleague to uh from uh uh a Middle East area to to join me, but in short um uh you'd be aware we do not have a presence, DEFAT does not have a presence in Syria. Um there has been we would describe the situation in northeast Syria as fluid and volatile. uh uh there has been a great deal of conflict obviously um and uh I don't have the dates in front of me but uh I believe it was in late January um I think it was the 30th of January a lot of conflict the Syrian transitional government uh entered into an integration a ceasefire and integration agreement with the Kurdishled Syrian Democratic Forces Uh that integration agreement has not been made public, but there are reports uh that describe that uh agreement as including elements for example uh a permanent ceasefire, a phased approach to military and security and administrative integration, uh agreements on military withdrawals, um the integration of SDF forces in the Syrian security forces, a handover strategic assets in northeast Syria, including oil fields, uh, airports, and state control of, uh, institutions and border crossings in northeast Syria. Um, there's there's the sit I would say uh, it is very difficult to obtain um, uh, accurate or precise information. The situation does change from time to
>> and I very much appreciate that. I just wanted to know whether you understand who is guarding the internally displaced person's camp such as at our road and al
>> Uh Senator Paul Griffith um first assistant secretary Middle East and Africa division. So at the moment um Al Hull is uh controlled by the Syrian forces. The SDF we understand still holds ROE um but is handing that over. I'm not sure that we've got a a timetable on when that will be handed over. Al Roge
that is I mean obviously things are >> around the timets but again those change from time to time and it is really very difficult to ascertain precisely what
the situation is. I I totally appreciate that. Given given the effective collapse of the SDF, >> is the department aware of any Australians who were previously detained escaping? So, are you aware that anyone
>> uh we are aware that there were some escapes. We have no visibility as to their identity.
So sorry I just missed
>> whether there were we we we are aware obviously there were media reports that there were some breakouts >> uh previously um but we are not aware whether there were any Australians amongst those
>> and so has there been any attempt by the department to take any to investigate the situation in the camps?
>> Well as as I've said previously senator our information is very patchy. We don't have a presence on the ground. We're monitoring as best as we can, but the information we have is very uh patchy.
>> Uh Minister, and I I'll go back to you on this. Just two final questions that I wanted to ask you. [snorts] Um can the government or will the government guarantee that no ISIS brides or other others associated with ISIS will be granted passports despite the situation
Senator, I think I've answered that that it feels like we're doing this over and over again. Um, uh, we have legal obligations, uh, that officers have to discharge. It's not a discretionary decision. What we do have is mechanisms to uh manage Australians of interest and I'll refer you back to my previous answer on
that. And just I I did ask this of the department but not specifically of you minister. Are you aware of any other ISIS brides or their children, any other cohort who have either arrived in Australia or who are on their way to Australia?
>> Senator Cash asked that earlier and I'll refer you to that answer.
>> Okay. So, there's
>> Senator I don't know that you did you
I'm not sure that you actually confirm whether you knew of anyone coming to Australia on their way to Australia.
>> Well, I think Senator Cash did ask me that. I'll refer you to that answer.
>> Could you just back for the benefit?
>> No, Senator really I've been very think
so I wasn't sure.
>> I think the minister provided a response.
>> We seem to be traversing the same territory over and over again. But the
>> so so if just for the benefit of this committee given you're not and look I have to be obviously very frank. I wasn't sure that you addressed that particular part of the question. And I might be wrong and I'm not making not reflecting on you in any way, Minister, but do you do you know of anyone either on the way to Australia or any group or cohort of people who intend to come to Australia?
Uh sure I can answer that again. I'm not aware or I haven't been advised of any further arrivals. Uh I am broadly aware uh that there are there is there are a number of individuals who are seeking to return to Australia. We've been upfront about that as has your government.
>> Thanks Minister. Thanks.
>> All right. Excellent. All right. Now Senator Faruqi uh you have the call and then we'll have our afternoon break.
>> Thank you chair. Um good afternoon everyone. I will start off with some questions on the murder of Zami Frankham Um, so Minister, it has been almost 2 years since the murder of Zomi Frankham by Israeli forces on April 1st, 2024, and Israel has still not been held to account. Meanwhile, your government has invited and warmly welcomed the head of the state which killed Australian aid worker Zomi Frankham. Minister, have you formally responded to the letter from Zami's family opposing President
>> Uh, Senator, I did cover this quite extensively with your colleague earlier today, Mr. Schubri, Senator Schubri,
>> so about a letter from the family as
well. >> No, about the the the issue the the issue more generally. >> Sure. I might have a couple of different questions. >> No. Well, maybe. Um hope so I could finish. Would that be all right? Sure. Thank you. Um I did cover this earlier the the issue earlier including what has been raised with President Herzog and also uh the nature of this visit and my engagement with the Frank family. Your question specifically about a recent letter.
>> Yes. Have you responded to a letter from Zami's family opposing President
>> I might I will check, Senator. I will take that on notice. Um, I know >> um I know my office has been engaging with the Frank family. Uh I previously engaged as I spoke to Senator Shoebridge about obviously uh with him uh about this uh and I think we have also communicated what I have said here that uh both the prime minister and I had raised the investigation uh with
point will you accept that Israel will not properly investigate itself and refer the matter on to the ICC or request the ICC like a truly independent investigation to be held? It has been 2 years. Nothing really has happened. Um, so are you considering at all requesting the ICC to look into it independently?
>> two points. First is obviously we immediately commission the binskin report which I released publicly. Uh and secondly there is a process underway in Israel. Uh uh of course it is taking longer than we would want. Uh and uh the prime minister raised this directly with the president uh as did I.
Uh Minister, there was an issue of uh the drone strike audio which had not been provided to Australia of the of the killing. Um has that been now provided?
this is something that has been raised with me. Uh I will I would prefer to take on notice what um representations have been made about that. So, has the video has the audio been provided or not?
>> that's my question. Uh, Minister, has the audio been provided to the Australian government?
I would like to take that on notice for the purposes of of making sure I provide you with accurate information, including in relation to what uh uh Mr. Binskin had access to and what representations were subsequently made. Um, I don't have that detail here, but I'm happy to provide it or to to look if I can
>> Minister, during today's hearing, you have mentioned several times in relation to President Herzog's visit uh that the temperature should be lowered, the temperature should be dialed down. Do you think police assaulting Muslim men peacefully praying in town hall square on Monday evening is turning the temperature down or turning the temperature up by assaulting peaceful Muslim men praying.
I think many Australians have found the the the footage the of what has occurred this week very difficult. Uh what I've said is people have very different views and very strong views about the Middle East and they're entitled to express those. I believe they should do that in a peaceful way. Uh I think um we do need to lower the temperature in this country. I think would be in our interests.
>> So my question was
>> I hadn't finished my answer please. Um I think Australians believe that people have a right to pray in peace. Uh, and I think that I believe that many Australians would have found those scenes confronting and I think it would have been particularly confronting for Muslim Australians. I found them Uh, and I would say that freedom of religion and the peaceful expression of different views is an important part of who we are. Uh, as the prime minister said yesterday, uh, I understand that the New South Wales police have committed to an investigation uh, with a review of the footage and I I think people many people will want to understand the circumstances surrounding that. I I will await those findings before I would say anything further.
>> Minister, you might know I have spoken to many Muslims since that time and people are really scared. People were crying when they met me. Um and um I I think there is a real obligation for the prime minister and you to actually ask Premier Mins to apologize to the Muslim community for what happened. >> Uh minister, you have often pointed to the declaration uh for the international protection of humanitarian personnel as one of the big victories.
>> Uh I I'm not sure I I don't think I use the word victory, Senator. Maybe you
didn't use the word victory, but it's something I feel that you think was an important step forward.
>> Well, I think I was responding to you being very critical of it and accusing us of just being engaged in words only.
>> Yes.
>> Uh which again, that's that is what diplomacy involves, Senator. >> And sometimes it's simply that you don't like the words. But uh I think it was an important step. Uh and uh you know there's more to do.
So what has been the effect of the you're criticizing me for criticizing you for words while using more words. What has been the effect of that declaration? Because in 2025, a year after the declaration was signed, there's still 334 aid workers who have been killed. I'm sure you were you are aware of that.
>> Perhaps I will ask who am I asking to go through what we have done on the declaration? Um, I just want to know how has it
stopped aid workers from being killed because it hasn't.
>> Senator, international law, international norms rely on state parties and other parties to observe them. There is no magic wand. There's certainly no magic wand in the Australian Senate if we we simply yell about it.
>> Minister, there is a better way of dealing with this by sanctioning those countries that kill aid workers for >> rather than just words on.
>> Thank you. Let the minister finish. >> Thank you. Uh uh international the international system uh does require uh parties to create to to work to strengthen norms around behaviors. Now that is the it is imperfect. It is not like a nation state being able to to very clearly um proscribe behavior, regulate behavior and impose um sanctions for u failure to act or add to act in certain ways. This is about trying to strengthen norms. So I will ask whichever official is best placed to talk about how we have sought to operationalize this including with the international committee of the Red
as you flag, the last two years have been um the deadliest uh years for humanitarian workers. It's um obviously the reason that the foreign minister with seven other ministers uh organized a ministerial group to um prepare and launch the declaration at Anga High Levels Week last uh September. Um
>> sorry, I'm my time is limited. I know what happened. I just want to know the effect of that
>> Senator. >> I think the >> the official should be able to finish.
>> so I was just giving the context in terms of the declaration. Uh since the launch of the declaration, uh the government has committed um $15 million of funding to look at how we can both make it safer for aid workers and delivering assistance, particularly in funding to the UN um Department of Safety and Security that has a responsibility in terms of how it supports local humanitarian workers, humanitarian agencies in the field, provided funding to the Australian Red Cross to provide safety and security for the work the Red Cross does um uh globally. It's provided um funding to um humanitarian outcomes. It does a lot of public uh data collection to ensure that we're understanding what the the the the trends, the challenges and the the violations against humanitarian workers. Um the government's also announced $2.5 million of funding as part of the package to support aid workers and their families who are impacted by um uh attacks or have uh people uh who have have lost their lives. and also provide legal assistance for those um being assisted. Um we've also um launched the declaration of uh in December um the the um friendship group secretariat for the declaration was launched in Geneva uh at that time. Um, following that, we're in the process of how we work with the ministerial group to ensure that in a number of the major crises around the world at the moment, we've got the the the countries that have committed to the declaration, over 110 now, looking at how they work together to try and practically um shine a light on the ongoing violations and uh uh impacts that humanitarian workers are facing in crisis including in Myanmar, Sudan, uh Bangladesh, uh Gaza, etc.
>> Okay. Um, there was a branch in DEFAT for the protection of humanitarian personnel. >> Are there any staff in this branch anymore? Because it's no longer on DEFAT's organizational chart.
>> Wasn't a branch. I'll just give the context. I'll pass it to Steve Scott about uh how it fits within the humanitarian division. It was a a small task group that was pulled together that that that brought together um some of our personnel staff from the multilateral division from our humanitarian division to really do the work in lead up to decoration. Once the declaration was launched we then embedded it in as part of the how we're integrating it into our humanitarian
>> Okay. I think that's fine. That's enough of a response. Uh Minister, under, as you well aware, under the current legislation, humanitarian organization are liable to criminal charges when delivering aid to civilians um in regions controlled by prescribed terrorist actors purely because of geographical proximity. Uh in November last year, I moved an amendment to the criminal code amendment state sponsors of terrorism bill 2025 to create an exemption under the criminal code for designated humanitarian entities when providing aid in conflict zones. >> Uh the Labor government did vote against it but agreed that they were looking into it. Uh, Senator Green stated that in order to change part 5.3 of the criminal code to make such an amendment, it would require the agreement of the first ministers. Um, has there been any progress with this agreement? Has this been made? Uh,
I'll get one of the officers to my left to update that. I mean, I I think I don't know if I said this in the chamber, Senate. I have this has been raised with me by NOS's. I have some sympathy for the challenges. I think there the advice to me was complex frankly. Uh uh but I'll ask Mr. Sloper or Mr. Scott perhaps to update you on what's happened since.
>> Yeah, just very quickly update on how this agreement is going if if it is being progressed with the first ministers.
>> Sorry. Yeah. Steve Scott uh senator, first assistant secretary, humanitarian civil society division. um that works led by attorney general's department. We stay in regular contact with them and also obviously with the NGO sector that's obviously particularly interested in that as you rightly point out it's very complex and necessitates careful consideration and consultation. My understanding is um that work will be progressed this year but for specifics of how that's progressing that should be
Just last question from me chair. Um I know minister that you answered some questions that um my colleague Senator Shoebridge had about this but but I just had have a follow- on question. As I understood from the responses to those questions, this is about this supposed board of peace. Um, as I understood it, the government has not yet made a decision about Australia accepting or rejecting the invitation to join Trump's so-called Board of Peace, which has, I think many have very aptly called it, a payto-pay club. I'm just wondering when the government will make that decision
So, uh, yes, I did respond to Senator Shoebridge, um, on this front and I I I think I made a few points, um, and I should have added, and obviously we're engaging with with, um, other, um, partners on this. Um, you know, we the it would be an international treaty with legally binding obligations. So that's a uh a different arrangement to uh many arrangements such as the you know the quad for example that we engage in that we want we will continue to um uh work with the US uh you know obviously quad U um G20. Uh I also made the point to Senator Shoebridge that we are we remain strong supporters of the UN notwithstanding the fact I think the UN is facing a difficult period. Uh and uh the imperative of reform is something I have spoken at length about that it will have to reform um to um to survive. Uh we'll we'll continue to work through that. Senator
>> Yeah. this when will the decision be made because other countries have made decisions like New Zealand has rejected this already others have as well uh when will you make a decision?
Oh, we we'll continue to work through it, Senator. In part also, you may have missed the exchange. We do want to understand how we can continue to engage on the progress of the peace plan because the original security council discussion about this resolution was it 283 >> 283 resolution, the board of peace was envisaged as the entity which would help >> transition. the transitional administration for the which is central to the progress of the peace plan and obviously we have a strong interest in doing what we are able and in a practical way to support the priest plan
>> it's changed completely from what it was envisision envisaged at the start you would be well aware of that
>> I I think I think look I think we we were upfront about that how it was envisaged and that Mr. just gave evidence I think about the the terms the >> I'm sorry I couldn't recall the phrase.
>> Yeah. I mean the charter doesn't even include anything about peace for Gaza. So I do hope you make a decision soon and rip up that invitation.
>> Thank you. Thank you Senator Fooie. On that note, we are now going to break for afternoon tea and we'll be back here at