Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 5:52:06 to 6:22:59
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet officials detail the rapid timeline and consultation process for establishing the Royal Commission into Antisemitism.
Topics: Royal commissions, Antisemitism, Education
Speakers: Hon Penny Wong, Hon Michaelia Cash, Andrew Walter, Blair Exell, Unknown Speaker, Karen Grogan, Speaker 49
the Honorable Penny Wong, Minister of Foreign Affairs, representing the Prime Minister and Mr. Blair, XL Deputy Secretary and other officers of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. Minister, would you care to make an opening statement?
>> Uh, yes, please. Whoa, that's very loud.
>> We've had [laughter] we've had some
Uh yes please
>> please go ahead.
>> Thank you. I just do [clears throat] wish to uh take the opportunity to make an opening statement uh in relation to the uh anti-semitic terrorist attack at Bondi Beach on the 14th of December 2025. Uh we suffered the deadliest terrorist attack on our soil in Australian history. Against the iconic backdrop of Bondai Beach where members of Australia's Jewish community had gathered to celebrate the first night of Hanukkah. Two men with high-powered guns stole the lives of 15 pe innocent people and wounded so many more. It was a violent attack. It was a calculated attack and it was targeted against our Jewish Australian Jewish community. A monstrous act of hatefilled anti-semitism. Our hearts break uh for the families and loved ones of those who who were killed and we stand with them as they carry a profound grief. Uh, as the prime minister said in the immediate aftermath of the attack, Australia will never submit to division, violence or hatred. There is no place for anti-semitism or hate of any kind in Australia and the government will continue to prioritize national unity to continue to work to bring Australians together in the face of those who would seek to divide us. During this time, our message to the Australian Jewish community has been and continues to be that the Australian government stands with you. We see you and we value you. Australia is a nation that has been enriched by people of every faith, of every background over generations. We are united in our shared love of what we have built here together, and we remain dedicated to safeguarding Australia's multicultural success for future generations. Because every Australian has the right to feel valued and accepted and to practice their faith without fear of being subjected to violence or hate. Since the devastating attack on 14th December, the government has taken a range of actions to address address both the motivation and the method of the anti-semitic terrorist attack. In consultation with national cabinet, the Commonwealth has taken steps to strengthen Australia's gun laws by legisl legislating a framework for the national gun buyback scheme as well as restricting importation of firearms to Australian citizens and removing open-ended imports import permits. Com. Importantly, Comwalth background checks for gun licenses will be mandatory, including assessment by AIO. The government has also established a comworth royal commission on anti-semitism and social cohesion led by former high court justice the honorable v Virginia Bell AC the royal commission will investigate and make recommendations regarding the circumstances leading up to and including the attack as well as the response of government and security agencies. The Royal Commission will also examine anti-semitism in Australia and make recommendations towards combating hatred and strengthening social cohesion. The Commonwealth's recent legislative reforms also represent strong action designed to stamp out hate, anti-semitism, and violence. It is true that the final legislative package did not include everything the government wanted. However, new offenses for hate preachers, increased penalties for hate crimes, and expanded powers for the Minister for Home Affairs to list organizations as prohibited hate groups and to cancel visas of those who seek to spread hatred in Australia are all important new protections. The government has also announced that David Gonsky AC will lead a 12-month task force along the spe alongside the special envoy to combat anti-semitism to ensure the Australian education system properly prevents, tackles and responds to anti-semitism. This measure represents part of the government's broader response to the special envoys plan to combat anti-semitism and our commitment to on the ongoing program of work to be led by the envoy supported and implemented by These measures build on the government's record of taking action to tackle the scourge of anti-semitism and stamp out hate and violence in Australia. that in this includes the establishment of our first special envoy to combat anti-semitism, Miss Jillian Seagull, AO, the establishment of Operation Avalite, legislating against hate speech, and enacting a landmark ban on Nazi symbols, criminalizing doxing and imposing counterterrorism sanctions and financing restrictions on the white supremacist network terror, appointing the Australia's first national student ombbudsman, and the creation of a national hate crimes and incidents database, increase funding for improved safety and security at Jewish sites across the country, including schools and synagogues, as well as increased funding for Jewish security organizations and a record $100 million investment for countering violent extremism. Chair committee members, as the prime minister has said repeatedly, Australians do not want to see violence and conflict brought to our shores. We as a people are united by respect for each other's humanity and for each other's right to live in peace. In the wake of the horrific anti-semitic terrorist attack at Bondai Beach in December, the celebration of our diversity, the rejection of hate will continue to inform the actions of the Australian government as we continue to do everything in our power to keep Australians safe. Thank you, chair.
>> Thank you, Mr. Exell. Do you have an opening statement?
>> I do. Thank you, Chair. >> Please go ahead. Thank you chair Blxaw deputy secretary of the social policy group in the department of prime minister and cabinet. Other members of PNC's executive are in attendance today for this session include Ellie Lawson deputy secretary international and security Kendra Morony deputy secretary for Lucetti acting deputy secretary economy industry and resilience and Karen Crosswave acting deputy secretary for governance and corporate group. Officers from the office of women and Australian government consulting will be appearing tomorrow with portfolio agencies under the responsibility of the minister for women and minister for public service respectively. I also note the following recent changes to the PMC executive as of 12th of January 2026. Kender Moroni was promoted to the position of deputy secretary August group. Nadine Williams has been second to the Department of Defense to lead the whole of government task force to implement the defense delivery agency announced by the government on the 1st of December 2025. And finally, Martin Hair retired from the public service on the 6th of February 2026 after a career that spanned more than three decades working across the ACT and the Commonwealth public service and we thank him for his service. I have PMC's organizational chart available for the committee should you wish to have it tabled. And following the minister's comments, I would also like to acknowledge on behalf of PNC that our thoughts are also remain with the families and friends of the 15 people who tragically lost their lives in the horrific anti-semitic terrorist attack on Bondai Beach on the 14th December, those recovering from injuries and all those affected. As the prime minister said in his remarks during the National Day of Morning on Thursday the 22nd of January, we stand in solidarity with Jewish Australians and affirm our shared values of unity, compassion and resilience that define Australia. In response to the attack, PNC established the Bondai response coordination task force to manage coordination of activities across government in response to the attack. In addition to its business as usual role in supporting the government's policy response and the usual workings of government, PMC continues to work closely with New South Wales to ensure victims and their families receive the support they need. PMC also worked in close collaboration with the agency's leading aspects of the government's response. in particular, the Department of Home Affairs on firearms reform, the government response to the report of the special envoy to combat anti-semitism, the combating anti-semitism, hate and extremism, firearm and customs laws, and on security and immediate support for Jewish community organizations, the attorney general's department on the Royal Commission on Anti-semitism and Social Cohesion, and the Combating Anti-semitism, Hate and Extremism, Criminal and Migration Laws Act, the National Emergency Management Agency on Funding to New South Wales under the disaster recovery funding arrangements and the department of health, disability and aging on implementation of the immediate mental health supports for the affected communities. Thank you for the time chair. Happy to answer questions.
>> Thank you. Um we'll go directly to Senator Cash.
>> Uh thank you very much and chair. I assume we're getting um copies of both of the opening statements if they're able to be printed.
>> I might have altered as I spoke a little, but the gist of it
>> the gist of it there. The gist of it there.
>> And to be fair, I shortened some too.
>> Could I just turn to um Royal Commissions generally and then specifically the anti-semitism royal Do we need anybody at the table? Thank Uh just in terms of the general first, can you briefly because of time uh take me through the role that prime minister and cabinet plays in the establishment of a federal royal commission?
>> S thanks for the question. Um the attorney general's department is the lead uh department responsible for royal commission's operations processes. um uh the prime minister department normally plays I'll turn to my colleague to support this a role to support that and because normally prime uh prime ministers are very involved in the establishment of royal commissioners so that is what occurred in this instance um uh we worked very closely with attorney generals in the preparation the process as well
>> could you just take me through that process then when you said that is what occurred in this instance um just take me through so the AGS was the lead department when it came to I'll refer to it as the anti-semitism from Royal Commission. Is that correct?
>> Sorry, S. I think I said uh the attorney general department is is the lead department for royal commissions and establishing the processes.
>> Uh yes. So when you said in this instance were you referring to the anti-semitism royal commission?
>> No, I was I was referring to the broad you were talking about the broad understood processes. So yeah,
>> that's fine. Okay. So uh in terms of then the process for developing draft terms of reference, how is that normally undertaken and what's PMC's role?
Sen, I can't speak to how they're normally undertaken. This is my first um experience in doing a Royal Commission. Um but I'll turn to my colleague for broader process and then I'm happy to come come back to how
>> Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Uh Andrew Walter, first assistant secretary, government division, department of prime minister and cabinet. Um so it varies historically. Um obviously royal commissions are established by the governor general. uh that occurs on advice from the government. Uh for the last couple that advice has come from the attorney general, but they've been government decisions to recommend the establishment of the royal commission. Um obviously depending on the particular royal commission, the department, this department uh plays either a fairly lead role or a coordinating role depending on the circumstances.
>> Thank you, Mr. Walter. Could I then specifically turn to uh as I said I'll refer to it as the anti-semitism uh royal commission. Um what was the department of prime minister's prime minister and cabinet's role uh in relation to the establishment of that particular royal commission?
>> Senator um in this instance in it it was essentially led by the department of the prime minister and cabinet. Um we we received I guess the tasking from government to commence the process. We then reached out um in that process uh with the department of return journals to seek their advice and input to the process and the establishment of the
>> Uh so in terms of the terms of reference themselves um when did PMC first begin drafting them?
>> Uh S that would have been on approximately the 5th of January.
the 5th of January. Yep. Okay. Um, when were you first consulted on the terms of reference? So, you commenceed drafting on or about the 5th of January. When were you first consulted on the terms of reference?
>> Sorry. Consulted by whom?
>> The government.
>> Well, advice to government is not something he'll be talking about.
>> I'm asking for a date, Senator Wong. I'm not asking for what was consulted on. We now know that on the 5th of January the drafting commence. I'm merely asking on what date did the consultation commence.
>> Sorry, are you referring to consultation from the promise department with others or you
>> yourselves? >> You commenced drafting on the 5th. >> Y >> when were you told to commence drafting?
>> Uh thank you. That's a good question. So uh we received uh formal uh request to start some drafting on the uh the night before. So on
>> the night before. >> Right. >> So the 4th of January.
>> Uh on the evening of the 4th of January.
That's correct. >> Thank you. Um, in terms of the terms of reference themselves, who within the department had final sign off of the draft terms of reference before any versions were sent off um to say the prime minister's office. So, who had the final sign off on these terms of
Uh so the terms of reference were ultimately or the letters patent were considered by the government uh before they were uh referred to the governor general for her consideration. If you're asking who led the development of those terms of reference in coordination with the attorney general's department, that was me.
>> That was you, Mr. Walters, was it? Okay. Um, on what day were the terms of reference in draft form first provided to the government for their
>> Um, the the prime minister um had a press conference on the day that the uh terms of reference were agreed by the government. Uh so it was on the 8th of the 8th of January was the date as the prime minister has said
>> The 8th of January
>> and then just for completeness considered by the governor general the following day on the
Um, how many drafts of the terms of reference were there?
I'd have to take that on notice, Senator. So, I think it's worth saying that when we were tasked, we weren't starting from scratch. Um obviously uh as the prime minister has said uh the government have been thinking about uh the possibility of a royal commission for some time have been consulting with the prime minister been consulting with his colleagues and with uh the community particularly the Jewish community. So there were some uh thoughts that were welldeveloped. We obviously have the terms of reference for the uh independent review being conducted by Dennis Richardson which you'll find was incorporated into the letters patent. Uh we did make some changes there to make more in the language of letters patent. Uh and we'd also had [clears throat] some discussions with New South Wales about what they had in mind. So we had quite a lot to start with. Um but there would have been a few drafts gone through over those couple of days and they became they they become more formal. So the attorney general's department asked the office of parliamentary council to draft the latest patent. I think that would have been on the 6th of January that instructions would have been given for that.
>> Sorry, on the 6th of January,
>> I think so. I'll check that date, but I'm pretty sure it was the 6th of January. Um, so they put it into the formal language that you see in the letters patient and there were a couple of versions of that that were we we went through before they were considered by
If >> I could just go back to the time frame. Um, you said that and I quote, we didn't start from scratch and that the government had been consulting on a royal commission for some time. Um, can I ask you then, Mr. Walters, when was the first point in time uh that you began consulting on a royal commission into anti-semitism?
>> Yes. No, understood. Um, so what I was saying was the prime minister has made clear that he had been consulting for some time about the possibility of a royal commission. There were definitely some thoughts that came out of that process of those consultations which were provided to us over the fourth and the 5th of January which we worked with as we then worked through those other factors as well including the Richardson terms of reference and so forth.
>> Uh but in terms of the time frame it seems to be a very short time frame. The fourth you were given instructions the fifth you appeared to a consult and the six um AGs asked OPC to actually draft the letters patent. Is that correct?
>> It's true. But we had some pretty wellformed thoughts by the time we were going to OPC.
>> So um when you say you consulted in terms of the terms of reference uh for this particular royal commission, who exactly was consulted with?
>> Uh so there's there's two elements here, Senator. So the prime minister had been consulting and I'd have to take that on notice because I I know he was consulting with members of the Jewish community and with his colleagues and obviously there was a lot of consultation with colleagues through this process. So uh but that was predominantly done by the prime minister and his office. uh we then uh took over the kind of uh if I can call it the internal government consultation aspect and that was predominantly with the attorney general's department as the most effective department. We did um ask the department of home affairs to have a look at an early draft. Um they were uh that provided some very useful comments but they were keen to be careful because a lot of the topics fall within their responsibilities. So they were careful not to be seen to to drive it particularly. So it was mainly with the attorney general staff.
>> Mr. Walters when you say we took over meaning the department. >> Um in terms of the drafting and the consultation on what date was that?
>> Uh so as Mr. Exell has said we were tasked on the evening of the 4th and we began substantive work on the 5th
>> and substantive work. Right. And so you said that the department consulted substantively with the attorney general's department. Yes. And also the department of home affairs. But in terms of
>> a bit more
>> you needed. Yeah. Um who else did you consult with?
>> Uh as I mentioned the office of parliamentary council uh were al did the formal drafting. Uh so the form you see now was drafted by the office of parliamentary council. Um I understand that during that period the prime minister and the prime minister's office was cons continuing to consult with colleagues and also with the community.
>> During that period does that mean between the evening of the 4th to the 6th of January? So Senator Wong during that period Mr. Walter says the prime minister and the prime minister's office continued to consult with colleagues. What does that actually mean? what was he consulting on and which colleagues did he speak to?
>> I think the prime minister has made clear uh that through this period after the horrific attack there were multiple uh meetings of the NSC. Uh obviously there was an active investigation and a requirement to uh whatever action that needed to be taken to keep Australians safe was so there was consultation through those normal processes. Um
>> so that wasn't quite my question. My question was the evening of the 4th through to the 6th.
>> I I I well I don't necessarily accept that timetable to be frank that might be the department's engagement on consultation but I can say to you the the the issue of the the response to the attack um and how best to respond was uh obviously something on which the prime minister was engaging very closely with members of the Jewish community including those uh particularly from the who were most affected uh as well as colleagues. So I I think Mr. Walter has given you an indication of a time frame from the perspective of the public service, but I think people know the prime minister was very deeply engaged with members of the community, leading faith leaders, community leaders, as well as grieving families.
>> Um, Senator Wong, how many Jewish community groups were consulted in relation to the final terms of
reference? I'll I'll take that on notice.
>> Okay. Um, how many Jewish community leaders actually saw the draft terms of reference on the 5th of January, 2026? I
>> I I'll take these matters on notice.
>> Uh, Mr. Walters, can you potentially answer those questions then from a departmental perspective?
>> I've taken them on notice.
>> No, I'm sure Senator, you don't need to
instruct Mr. I'm not instructing. I'm the minister at the table. Senator Cash, can I finish? >> Senator Cash, >> the minister is entitled to take the question on notice.
>> Uh not if there is a departmental official here that has been directly asked a question and has the knowledge within his remit. So you've instructed him to take it on notice. On what basis, Senator Wong, have you asked Mr. Walter
able to request that a question be taken on notice.
>> But on what basis?
>> Because I am able to do that because I I am absolutely sure Mr. Walter would not have all of the consultation that the prime minister has undertaken in his I'm trying to be polite, but I'm being spoken over endlessly. >> Thank you, chair. I'll start my answer again. >> Thank you. Um, uh, Senator Cash, uh, you asked a wide-ranging question. I've taken on notice because I want to make sure the answer is, uh, is is accurate. I'm sure that Mr. Walter, as good as he is, will not know every engagement the prime minister had. So, I think it is reasonable for, uh, the question to him to also be taken on notice, and that is the prerogative of the minister at the
>> Except with all due respect, Senator Walnut, that was not the question that I asked Mr. Walter. I asked a very specific question in relation to the terms of reference as drafted on the 5th of January. The evidence given by Mr. Walter's instructions would be given on the evening on the 4th of January. The drafting commenced on the 5th and was provided and OPC were directed to start drafting the letters patent on the 6th. So my question to Mr. Walters is how many Jewish groups saw on either the 5th or the 6th of January the terms of reference. Mr. Walter,
>> but that's my point. He won't know.
>> Well, he hasn't had a chance to actually answer. If the answer is Mr. Walter does not know,
>> well, he's not going to know who everybody everyone whom the prime minister spoke to
>> on the 5th of January.
>> Well, he won't.
>> Well, that is for Mr. Walter to tell me. Mr. Walter, were any Jewish groups in your knowledge shown the terms of reference?
>> That's another question.
>> So Senator, in terms of the original question you asked from Fredo, we'll consultation was occurring through the prime minister and the prime minister's
office. >> Thank you.
>> So through the prime minister and the prime minister's office, are you aware, Mr. Walter, if any Jewish groups were shown the terms of reference as drafted
just so I will take that on notice, but can if I can just clarify that the terms of reference were developed over those couple of days, including the drafting of the formal letters patent which incorporate incorporate what you might regard as terms of reference. Uh, so it was over a couple of days, not just on the 5th of January, but I would need to take that on notice nonetheless. Um,
Senator Wong, which of the victim's families saw the draft terms of reference as at the 5th of January 2026?
>> the prime minister engaged with members obviously he's kept has I think kept many of those interactions have not been in and we are talking grieving families. but I think that is a sub your question really goes to your earlier question about consultation. So I'll take it on
>> Sorry.
>> 2 minutes cash and then
>> so obviously the grieving families had to fight for a royal commission. The whole of Australia watched um day after day as they made their views very very clear on the need for the prime minister to call the royal commission. So my question is limited to the final draft of the terms of references as on the 5th of January. Did any of the victims families see the draft terms of reference on the 5th of
I'd have to take that on notice. But what I would say is that the government has consulted and will consult widely uh about has consulted and will consult about not only the Royal Commission but how best to confront anti-semitism.
>> Um Mr. Walter, do you know if any of the victim's families saw the draft terms of reference as at the 5th of January?
>> I'd have to check that on notice. Okay.
um in terms of the terms of reference themsel as finalized um and as we now know they are. Can I just turn to an article that was published yesterday in the Daily Telegraph Bluer used to indoctrinate New South Wales kids in unauthorized propalistine lesson plans? Um, I will have a copy tabled, but just in terms of the content of the article, popular children's cartoon characters, including Blueie, are being used in unauthorized pro Palestinian lesson plans circulated by activist New South Wales teachers with educators also distributing classroom guides featuring a number of prescribed terrorist organizations. The Sunday Telegraph have obtained a 24page teaching guide aimed at a pri aimed at primary school children that praises Leela Khaled's wearing of the kafir despite her links to the popular front for the liberation of Palestine. Khed is a Palestinian activist who hijacked two planes and labeled Hamas operatives responsible for the October 7, 2023 attacks as freedom fighters. The lesson plan which is being shared by the teachers for Palestine New South Wales and Victoria activist groups also features the popular cartoon character Bluey alongside the text. This is actually in the cartoon in the article from the river to the sea Palestine will be free. Other well-known cartoon characters, including Miffy and the Powder Puff Girls, uh are also depicted in the teaching guides holding protest banners reading, "Resist to exist and resistance justified." Um, Senator Wong, is that appropriate material to be
I think three things. One is I have not not seen the article. >> Uh, two, I'm a Bluey fan. Recommend it for when you're feeling a Uh, and three, I think that really is you know, I'm not sure what portfolio you say is responsible for this, but perhaps it would be something you might want to address to the Department of Education. It sounded to me from the very lengthy thing that you read this is actually a matter for the New South Wales government.
>> Uh the point actually I am going to
rotate the call. There are a lot of senators in the room. I did give you um a heads up that I was going to rotate um I'll come back. Is that okay? >> Yep. Right. Excellent. We will go to Senator