Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee
Senate Estimates hearing,
Searchable transcript of the Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, 26 Oct 2026 Senate Estimates hearing, with chapters: Opening Remarks and Condolences for Dr. Helen Haines, Secretary Statement on Fiji Pre-COP Logistics, Total Estimated Costs for Pre-COP 31, Broadcasting and…
Chapters
- Opening Remarks and Condolences for Dr. Helen Haines (0:03)
The committee opens with an acknowledgement of country and expresses condolences for Dr. Helen Haines following a recent attack, while also addressing administrative hearing matters.
- Secretary Statement on Fiji Pre-COP Logistics (5:43)
Secretary Mike Kaiser delivers an opening statement justifying the logistics, staffing levels, and diplomatic objectives for the Fiji pre-COP event.
- Total Estimated Costs for Pre-COP 31 (9:25)
Senator Henderson questions the department on the total $34.6 million expenditure for the pre-COP 31 event held in Fiji and Tuvalu.
- Broadcasting and Media Center Infrastructure Costs (12:51)
Officials provide a breakdown of the $20 million event management contract and the $2 million spent on broadcasting and media center infrastructure.
- Historical Cost Comparisons for International Summits (17:18)
Minister Watt provides context for the current spending by comparing pre-COP costs to historical expenditures for APEC and G20 summits under previous governments.
- Itemized Hotel and Accommodation Expenses in Fiji (21:08)
The department provides an itemized list of contracted amounts for various hotels in the Nadi area used for delegates and workforce accommodation.
- Catering Costs and Regional Strategic Importance (26:51)
Discussion covers catering and reception costs while debating the strategic importance of Pacific regional engagement and climate diplomacy.
- Attendance of World Leaders and Delegation Travel (33:54)
Officials list the Pacific world leaders who attended the event and discuss delegation travel arrangements, including economy class travel for staff.
- Funding and Reprioritisation of COP Events (45:04)
Minister McAllister explains the $147.8 million funding allocation for COP-related events and the process of reprioritizing existing funds.
- Strategic International Partnership Investment Stream (46:42)
Debate over the use of savings from a coalition-era international partnership program to fund current climate diplomacy initiatives.
- Invitations to World Leaders for Pre-COP (1:24:32)
Senator Henderson questions the department on which world leaders were invited to the pre-COP conference, while the Secretary explains the role of PM&C in issuing invitations.
- Departmental Awareness of Invitation Lists (1:31:47)
Officials from DCCEEW discuss their level of awareness regarding the invitation list for world leaders and the logistical implications of potential high-level attendance.
- Minister Bowen's Engagement with Counterparts (1:39:42)
The committee examines whether Minister Chris Bowen personally lobbied international counterparts to attend the pre-COP meeting in the Pacific region.
- Event Planning and Contingency Arrangements (1:42:03)
Discussion focuses on the department's planning for the event, including venue bookings and contingencies for world leaders versus ministerial-level delegates.
- Breakdown of Conference Participant List (1:48:10)
Ms. Munro provides a detailed list of the 53 leaders and ministers, along with hundreds of delegates, who attended the conference and stakeholder programs.
- Travel Costs for Former Prime Ministers (1:54:10)
Senator Henderson inquires about the funding for travel and accommodation for former Prime Ministers Julia Gillard and Jacinda Ardern.
- Youth Climate Champion Travel Expenses (1:55:15)
The department provides a breakdown of travel and business-class flight costs for the Youth Climate Champion, Sally Higgins, across multiple international trips.
- Inquiry into COP31 Sydney Hotel Contract (1:59:59)
Senators question a $682,000 limited tender contract for accommodation and meeting rooms at a Sydney hotel for COP31 preparatory events.
- Debate on International Event Hosting Costs (2:03:32)
A heated exchange occurs regarding the scale of spending on international meetings compared to the costs of the 2014 G20 summit in Brisbane.
- Breakdown of Sofitel Sydney Venue Hire (2:10:57)
Officials provide details on the specific events and international delegate numbers associated with the Sofitel Darling Harbour contract.
- Tomago Smelter and Snowy Hydro 2.0 (2:13:56)
Senator Roberts questions the viability of the Tomago smelter's power purchase agreement and its reliance on Snowy Hydro 2.0.
- Firming Renewables for Heavy Industry (2:21:44)
Technical discussion on how solar and wind power will be firmed using batteries, gas, and pumped hydro to support heavy industrial operations.
- Energy Security and Hunter Region Jobs (2:27:41)
The committee debates the impact of the energy transition on 6,000 jobs in the Hunter Valley and the reliability of coal versus renewables.
- Regulation of Plug-in Solar Technology (2:34:28)
Officials discuss the current legal status of plug-in solar resources in Australia and the development of necessary safety standards.
- Home Battery Scheme Subsidy Review (2:39:03)
Senators review the Home Battery Scheme's $8.1 billion appropriation and recent adjustments to subsidy levels due to falling technology costs.
- Regulatory Framework for Data Center Energy (2:54:00)
The committee examines proposed legislation for data centers, focusing on requirements for new renewable generation and ensuring these facilities do not increase electricity prices for consumers.
- Conflicting Forecasts on National Diesel Consumption (3:03:26)
Senators question a discrepancy between Treasury and Department forecasts regarding future diesel consumption, with one projecting an increase and the other a decline by 2030.
- Impact of Coal Extensions on Renewables (3:05:57)
Discussion on how extensions of coal-fired power stations by state governments and private operators impact investment certainty for new renewable energy projects.
- Progress Toward 82 Percent Renewable Target (3:10:18)
Minister Ayres provides an update on the buildout of the national electricity grid, highlighting the volume of projects in progress to meet the 82% renewable energy target.
- Debate on Fossil Fuel Industry Education (3:12:15)
A debate occurs regarding reports of fossil fuel companies influencing school curricula and extracurricular activities in industrial regions like the Hunter Valley.
- Impact of Batteries on Wholesale Prices (3:16:12)
Officials report a 27% year-on-year decline in wholesale electricity prices, attributing the drop to increased battery storage and renewable energy penetration.
- Electric Vehicle Uptake and Policy Incentives (3:23:47)
Officials provide statistics on the rapid acceleration of electric vehicle sales in Australia and the impact of government incentives and efficiency standards.
- Capacity Investment Scheme Project Status and Withdrawals (3:27:11)
Examination of the number of projects announced, contracted, and withdrawn under the Capacity Investment Scheme (CIS), including reasons for project withdrawals.
- Challenges in Reaching CIS Financial Close (3:30:53)
Discussion on the timelines for projects reaching financial close and the market challenges, such as capital costs and network access, causing delays in the CIS.
- Renewable Generation Capacity Under CIS Contracts (3:33:26)
A review of the total renewable generation capacity under contract versus what has been delivered to the grid, alongside a debate on historical energy policy.
- Operational Projects and Withdrawn Generation Capacity (3:36:12)
Details on specific operational projects like the Makoen Solar Farm and the total gigawatts of renewable and dispatchable capacity lost through withdrawn CIS bids.
- CIS Contract Costs and Negotiation Status (3:39:05)
Discussion on the net present value of CIS contracts and the status of ongoing negotiations for projects before the committee adjourns for lunch.
- Examination of National Security and AFP (4:01:56)
Discussion regarding the strategic priorities of the Australian Federal Police and national security frameworks.
- Online Safety and Privacy Law Implementation (4:20:58)
Examination of the implementation of online safety standards and updates to the Privacy Act.
- ANAO Audits of Climate and Energy Programs (4:46:00)
Senator McDonald questions the department on its response to Auditor-General findings regarding vague definitions in climate and green economy programs.
- Oversight of Snowy 2.0 Project Management (4:49:28)
Discussion regarding the department's oversight role in Snowy 2.0 following a critical ANAO audit highlighting project management deficiencies and cost blowouts.
- Employment Data for the Green Economy (4:53:08)
Senator McDonald inquires about which agency is responsible for tracking jobs, salaries, and economic value within the emerging green economy.
- Measuring the Net Zero Transition (4:57:18)
A debate occurs regarding the difficulty of categorizing 'green jobs' and the use of ABS and Treasury data to measure the structural shift to net zero.
- Departmental Structure for Economic Modeling (5:03:01)
Senator McDonald asks for details on the specific policy sections within the department dedicated to modeling the economic impacts of the climate transition.
- New England Renewable Energy Zone (5:05:29)
Senator Roberts questions the planning and inclusion of the New England Renewable Energy Zone in the AEMO Integrated System Plan (ISP).
- AEMO Integrated System Plan Methodology (5:11:48)
Officials explain the criteria for 'anticipated projects' in the ISP and the consultation process between draft and final plan releases.
- Methane Leak Reporting and Monitoring (5:16:57)
Senator Pocock raises concerns about reported methane leaks at Chevron's Gorgon facility and the regulatory framework for monitoring such events.
- Regulatory Framework for Industrial Emission Compliance (5:26:01)
The Minister defends the regulatory separation between policy development and compliance enforcement regarding industrial emissions and the role of the Clean Energy Regulator.
- COP31 Preparations and Fossil Fuel Projects (5:30:52)
Examination of Australia's climate policy ambition ahead of COP31, the approval process for new fossil fuel projects, and concerns raised by Pacific Island nations.
- Diesel Use Reduction and Safeguard Facilities (5:40:03)
Discussion on incentives for reducing diesel consumption at facilities regulated under the Safeguard Mechanism, featuring a case study on mining electrification in the Pilbara.
- Capacity Investment Scheme Project Status Update (5:45:12)
A breakdown of the 27 wind, solar, and battery projects withdrawn from the Capacity Investment Scheme and the various reasons for their withdrawal from the tender process.
- Expenditure and Design of Home Battery Program (5:50:34)
Debate over the budget expenditure and design changes of the Cheaper Home Batteries program, focusing on household take-up and impacts on electricity bills.
- Korea Green Trade and CCS Grant Assessment (5:58:18)
Updates on negotiations for the Korea Green Trade deal and the departmental assessment process for Carbon Capture and Storage grants awarded to Pilot Energy.
- Pilot Energy Grant Assessment and FOI (6:03:10)
The committee examines the assessment process for a grant awarded to Pilot Energy's Midwest Clean Energy Project, following FOI disclosures regarding its technical rating.
- Modeling for Cheaper Home Batteries Program (6:09:04)
Discussion regarding the financial modeling and installation data underpinning the government's home battery program and its total expenditure over time.
- Pilot Energy Administration and Fund Recovery (6:12:26)
Senators question the department on the recovery of public funds following Pilot Energy entering administration and the role of the Business Grants Hub.
- CCS Market Distress and Gorgon Liability (6:15:46)
The committee discusses potential market distress in the Carbon Capture and Storage sector and unquantifiable liabilities related to the Gorgon CCS project.
- CEFC CEO Opening Statement and Overview (6:29:29)
New CEFC CEO Paul McCartney provides an opening statement highlighting record investment commitments and the progress of the Rewiring the Nation program.
- Impact of Hyperinflation on Wind Projects (6:31:53)
The CEFC CEO explains how global inflation has increased wind farm project costs by 20-30%, leading to a need for concessional finance to bridge liquidity gaps.
- Rewiring the Nation Fund Performance (6:41:51)
An examination of the Rewiring the Nation fund's contractual commitments, deployment rates, and current rate of return relative to its investment mandate.
- RTN Rate of Return and Performance (6:44:02)
Inquiry into the Rewiring the Nation fund's rate of return, which currently sits below the benchmark target due to the early stage of fund deployment.
- RTN Funding for Western Australia (6:47:32)
Discussion regarding the $3 billion set aside for Western Australia under the Rewiring the Nation fund and the status of active negotiations with the WA government.
- Data Center Investments and Green Energy (6:51:53)
Review of CEFC negotiations involving data centers, focusing on driving the use of renewable energy and the role of global investors in the sector.
- Rushy Lagoon and Agricultural Land Conversion (7:00:16)
Debate over the CEFC's investment in the Tasmanian Natural Asset Trust for the acquisition of Rushy Lagoon and the conversion of agricultural land to forestry.
- Integrity and Conflict of Interest Management (7:06:30)
Examination of conflict of interest management procedures within the CEFC, specifically regarding the chair's role on the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB).
- Snowy 2.0 Cost Reassessment (7:25:16)
Snowy Hydro Limited provides an opening statement regarding the cost reassessment for the Snowy 2.0 project, detailing updated target costs and project complexity.
- Snowy Hydro 2.0 Opening Statement and Costs (7:25:16)
Snowy Hydro CEO Dennis Barnes provides an opening statement detailing the cost reassessment of Snowy 2.0 to $22.2 billion and the transition from a fixed-price contract to an incentivized target cost model.
- Feasibility of Initial Two Billion Dollar Estimate (7:29:54)
The CEO admits the initial $2 billion headline figure for the project was infeasible and explains how design immaturity at the final investment decision led to significant cost blowouts.
- Debt Financing and Interest Cost Projections (7:31:45)
Senator Roberts questions the timeline for debt repayment and the total interest costs associated with the project, while the CEO discusses shareholder loans and capitalized interest.
- Project Viability and Potential Termination Costs (7:34:48)
Discussion turns to the costs of terminating the project versus completion, the project's role as a storage facility rather than a generator, and the impact on the construction workforce.
- Political Accountability for Snowy 2.0 Design (7:38:17)
A heated exchange occurs regarding which government is responsible for the project's failures, with the Minister blaming the previous administration's poor engineering design and lack of due diligence.
- Contract Reset and National Grid Benefits (7:44:35)
The CEO explains the chronology of the contract reset to an ITC model to improve productivity and outlines the project's value in ensuring grid reliability and lowering wholesale prices.
- Geological Risk Management and Tunneling Progress (7:53:59)
The CEO details efforts to manage geological risks, including advanced probing and dewatering technology for tunnel boring machines Monica and Florence in difficult zones.
- Energy Transition and Document Production Orders (7:59:16)
The hearing concludes with a debate on the transition to renewables versus coal-fired power, followed by questions regarding the department's failure to comply with a Senate order for document production.
- Compliance with Senate Document Orders (8:03:57)
Officials are questioned regarding the department's failure to comply with a Senate order for the production of Snowy Hydro cost documents.
- Impact of Increased Document Orders (8:07:44)
Minister Watt discusses the significant increase in Senate orders for documents and the resulting workload pressures on the department.
- Snowy Hydro Cost Reassessment Components (8:13:45)
Snowy Hydro CEO Dennis Barnes explains the three main elements of the project's cost reassessment, including contractor and shadow forecasts.
- Timeline of Cost Report Correspondence (8:21:15)
Senators probe the timeline of when the cost reassessment letter and supporting documents were provided to the Minister and the department.
- Upper Murrumbidgee Environmental Water Review (8:27:03)
Senator Pocock asks about the independent review of the Upper Murrumbidgee River and the implementation of environmental water release recommendations.
- Tantangra Fish Screens and Biodiversity (8:32:54)
Discussion regarding the cost and effectiveness of fish screens at Tantangra Dam to prevent the spread of invasive redfin perch.
- Project Cost Blowouts and Progress (8:39:27)
Senator Henderson questions the $25 billion total project cost and the "earned value" progress of Snowy 2.0 construction.
- Addressing Geological and Technical Risks (8:45:20)
A detailed examination of the geological risks involved in the project, including tunneling through fault zones and the excavation of massive underground caverns.
- Inflationary Pressures on Construction Costs (8:46:29)
Analysis of how global inflation, labor costs, and supply chain pressures contributed approximately $2.5 billion to the project's cost escalation.
- Requirement for Additional Government Support (8:49:41)
Discussion regarding the breakdown of Commonwealth investment and the anticipated need for further government support to maintain Snowy Hydro's credit rating.
- Political Accountability for Cost Blowouts (8:56:37)
A debate between committee members and the Minister regarding political responsibility for the project's mismanagement and the findings of ANAO reports.
- Impact of Labor Costs and EBA (9:03:30)
Examination of labor costs and the impact of the renegotiated Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (EBA), which added nearly $1 billion to the project budget.
- Economic Modeling and Asset Valuation (9:16:04)
Technical discussion on the project's economic modeling, including Net Present Value (NPV) and the Weighted Average Cost of Capital (WACC) used for valuation.
- Transparency on Project Economic Benefits (9:27:29)
Discussion centers on the absence of a revised Net Present Value (NPV) for Snowy 2.0 and the potential requirement for a multi-billion dollar government support package to maintain the project's viability.
- Political Debate on Project Management (9:31:58)
A heated exchange occurs between the Minister and Senators regarding the historical design and management of Snowy 2.0, leading to the conclusion of the agency's testimony.